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> Since Apple won't allow iDevice owners to access an unredacted raw disk image for forensics, iOS malware detection tools are hamstrung. And it's not just App

> Since Apple won't allow iDevice owners to access an unredacted raw disk image for forensics, iOS malware detection tools are hamstrung. And it's not just Apple. Android is just as bad, and even worse for the user because while iOS backups are consistent in backing up everything sans stuff in the Secure Enclave (i.e. credit card and eSIM keys), in Android support for backup is optional for apps and there are many games who just outright don't do any kind of backup.

fc417fc802 2y ago
This is true and I resent it. However, at least you have the option of installing a ROM that supports toggling adb root out of the box. That alone solves 99% of the issues I have with Android in practice.
- mschuster91 2y ago
  > However, at least you have the option of installing a ROM that supports toggling adb root out of the box. That's not valid for all devices, all Samsungs need a cooldown of one week (Knox lock, presumably to thwart people from rooting stolen devices to bypass antitheft), all modern Androids require a full wipe of the device as part of rooting so it's useless for forensics, and a shitload of apps will flat out refuse to work on rooted devices - forget many games, forget anything with streaming, forget banking apps.
  - fc417fc802 2y ago
    It works for forensics if you already had the OS installed. The fact that the process of flashing a new OS wipes the device is a good thing (consider what the alternatives are). Obviously I feel the user should always have had root. Switching the OS is a fix for that. Not choosing to do that is the same as the choice to purchase a locked device. > shitload of apps will flat out refuse to work on rooted devices People say this but so far most stuff has worked for me on lineage with microg. The adb root toggle isn't detectable as far as I know. Their only realistic option is to require SafetyNet.
    - mschuster91 2y ago
      > Their only realistic option is to require SafetyNet. ... which almost all of the mentioned apps do, and that's my point. Even with all the various hacks enabled.
      - fc417fc802 2y ago
        At that point we've digressed from a conversation about forensics, root access, and switching the OS to one about the evils of widespread remote attestation. I agree that centralized and ubiquitous remote attestation is evil. So disable it. Don't use services that require it. Don't use anything that requires DRM either, since that's one of the primary driving forces. > Even with all the various hacks enabled. Those were never going to work long term. Hardware based remote attestation can't realistically be bypassed by the end user.
firefax 2y ago
>iOS backups are consistent in backing up everything sans stuff in the Secure Enclave Do they now back u TOTP generators? I lost access to an account I had since my teens because when restoring from backup, I had no MFAs in my Google Authenticator. Since I had imported my teenage cell # into Google Voice, when the backup codes I'd generated for the account failed to restore access, I lost access to my gmail + my phone number I'd had for decades, despite taking what seemed to be reasonable steps. (I'd backup my iPhone to my laptop, and backup my laptop to a USB hard drive, one of which would live in my house and another in a secure offsite location.)
- RGamma 2y ago
  Nope not in general, gotta use multiple second factors and/or the second factor reset key.
  - firefax 2y ago
    Well unfortunately, if the backup method is SMS MFA, and that SMS # is now behind Google's cloud, you can become locked out. Really terrible, from a UX perspective -- I managed to go decades without a data loss, and then poof -- every email, calendar, and contact from my late teens to my 30s erased.
- mschuster91 2y ago
  Google Authenticator at least does support cloud uploads.
  - firefax 2y ago
    Since when? Currently, I back up all my TOTP generators in KeePass to avoid this. (It's simple to throw the file onto a usb or other data store) I like that solution better than pushing my seeds to "the cloud".

fc417fc802 2y ago

This is true and I resent it. However, at least you have the option of installing a ROM that supports toggling adb root out of the box. That alone solves 99% of the issues I have with Android in practice.

mschuster91 2y ago
> However, at least you have the option of installing a ROM that supports toggling adb root out of the box. That's not valid for all devices, all Samsungs need a cooldown of one week (Knox lock, presumably to thwart people from rooting stolen devices to bypass antitheft), all modern Androids require a full wipe of the device as part of rooting so it's useless for forensics, and a shitload of apps will flat out refuse to work on rooted devices - forget many games, forget anything with streaming, forget banking apps.
- fc417fc802 2y ago
  It works for forensics if you already had the OS installed. The fact that the process of flashing a new OS wipes the device is a good thing (consider what the alternatives are). Obviously I feel the user should always have had root. Switching the OS is a fix for that. Not choosing to do that is the same as the choice to purchase a locked device. > shitload of apps will flat out refuse to work on rooted devices People say this but so far most stuff has worked for me on lineage with microg. The adb root toggle isn't detectable as far as I know. Their only realistic option is to require SafetyNet.
  - mschuster91 2y ago
    > Their only realistic option is to require SafetyNet. ... which almost all of the mentioned apps do, and that's my point. Even with all the various hacks enabled.
    - fc417fc802 2y ago
      At that point we've digressed from a conversation about forensics, root access, and switching the OS to one about the evils of widespread remote attestation. I agree that centralized and ubiquitous remote attestation is evil. So disable it. Don't use services that require it. Don't use anything that requires DRM either, since that's one of the primary driving forces. > Even with all the various hacks enabled. Those were never going to work long term. Hardware based remote attestation can't realistically be bypassed by the end user.

firefax 2y ago

>iOS backups are consistent in backing up everything sans stuff in the Secure Enclave Do they now back u TOTP generators? I lost access to an account I had since my teens because when restoring from backup, I had no MFAs in my Google Authenticator. Since I had imported my teenage cell # into Google Voice, when the backup codes I'd generated for the account failed to restore access, I lost access to my gmail + my phone number I'd had for decades, despite taking what seemed to be reasonable steps. (I'd backup my iPhone to my laptop, and backup my laptop to a USB hard drive, one of which would live in my house and another in a secure offsite location.)

RGamma 2y ago
Nope not in general, gotta use multiple second factors and/or the second factor reset key.
- firefax 2y ago
  Well unfortunately, if the backup method is SMS MFA, and that SMS # is now behind Google's cloud, you can become locked out. Really terrible, from a UX perspective -- I managed to go decades without a data loss, and then poof -- every email, calendar, and contact from my late teens to my 30s erased.
mschuster91 2y ago
Google Authenticator at least does support cloud uploads.
- firefax 2y ago
  Since when? Currently, I back up all my TOTP generators in KeePass to avoid this. (It's simple to throw the file onto a usb or other data store) I like that solution better than pushing my seeds to "the cloud".