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That’s why though I like ideas like Solid or the Fediverse, I’m skeptical they can be more than aspirational. The tech here isn’t the hard part, it’s the social

by lukev 2y ago

That’s why though I like ideas like Solid or the Fediverse, I’m skeptical they can be more than aspirational. The tech here isn’t the hard part, it’s the social factors. That’s why I’m currently most excited about ATProto (Bluesky)… bootstrapping a protocol as a centralized service that has already hit critical mass, and that can now be fully decentralized on an opt-in basis… feels promising.

desireco42 2y ago
I looked in at ATProto and it is really well thought out and promising. Thank you for posting this. It isn't easy to create alternative, but it should not be created as alternative to Facebook for example, but an alternative space for people to connect and express themselves. That will work more then just create another copy.
- realfeel78 2y ago
  > I looked in at ATProto and it is really well thought out and promising. No it isn't.
  - pfraze 2y ago
    Counter-point: It's sufficiently thought out and promising.
    - evbogue 2y ago
      I'm all in on Bluesky since last week and I agree with you that there's a lot to it.
  - throw-the-towel 2y ago
    Would you elaborate? Because that could be an interesting technical discussion.
realfeel78 2y ago
The tech is also hard and Bluesky and Mastodon are shit.
pfraze 2y ago
What pcorda is describing is actually the premise of Bluesky, which is why it was initially funded through grants and established as a Public Benefit Corporation. The logic has been to find the appropriate hybrid of commercial and non-commercial interest which will support the work. The initial team came from a bunch of activist projects (typically p2p) and the thing we concluded was that activism requires a theory of change. How is your new technology going to get adopted across the world? The software world still largely operates by markets. Startups are the vehicle for distribution. So we need to behave like a startup while still accomplishing the technical/mission work. The incredible gift was the initial funding and awareness, which Dorsey deserves a lot of credit for^1. That gave us about 10 months to do protocol work prior to commercialization, which was less than we wanted but just enough to get it done. ActivityPub deserves a lot of credit too for its progress under an entirely different model, which I tend to describe as communitarian. What both projects did correctly was connect the protocol to an initial application that drives that distribution. Whether either get to "mass" adoption (greater than centralized services) is now the big question. ^1 Apologies for teeing up the inevitable "Dorsey left" conversations.

by lukev 2y ago

desireco42 2y ago

I looked in at ATProto and it is really well thought out and promising. Thank you for posting this. It isn't easy to create alternative, but it should not be created as alternative to Facebook for example, but an alternative space for people to connect and express themselves. That will work more then just create another copy.

realfeel78 2y ago
> I looked in at ATProto and it is really well thought out and promising. No it isn't.
- pfraze 2y ago
  Counter-point: It's sufficiently thought out and promising.
  - evbogue 2y ago
    I'm all in on Bluesky since last week and I agree with you that there's a lot to it.
- throw-the-towel 2y ago
  Would you elaborate? Because that could be an interesting technical discussion.

realfeel78 2y ago

The tech is also hard and Bluesky and Mastodon are shit.

pfraze 2y ago

What pcorda is describing is actually the premise of Bluesky, which is why it was initially funded through grants and established as a Public Benefit Corporation. The logic has been to find the appropriate hybrid of commercial and non-commercial interest which will support the work. The initial team came from a bunch of activist projects (typically p2p) and the thing we concluded was that activism requires a theory of change. How is your new technology going to get adopted across the world? The software world still largely operates by markets. Startups are the vehicle for distribution. So we need to behave like a startup while still accomplishing the technical/mission work. The incredible gift was the initial funding and awareness, which Dorsey deserves a lot of credit for^1. That gave us about 10 months to do protocol work prior to commercialization, which was less than we wanted but just enough to get it done. ActivityPub deserves a lot of credit too for its progress under an entirely different model, which I tend to describe as communitarian. What both projects did correctly was connect the protocol to an initial application that drives that distribution. Whether either get to "mass" adoption (greater than centralized services) is now the big question. ^1 Apologies for teeing up the inevitable "Dorsey left" conversations.