3 ms·

>it's likely the last era of humanity No. Just no. No matter what what the thing is. It just isn't. That's not a reason to NOT protest/fight unchecked power.

>it's likely the last era of humanity No. Just no. No matter what what the thing is. It just isn't. That's not a reason to NOT protest/fight unchecked power. It just isn't the reason to do it.

jackyinger 2y ago
That is a pretty disingenuous quotation, you cut it mid sentence destroying the context: > It's the most important time in human history to protest/fight unchecked power because it's likely the last era of humanity that we are going to be able to.
- PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
  I cut the context because the context doesn't matter. Anyone making the claim that this likely the last era of humanity that anything is just wrong. The future (even just the future of humanity) is longer and weirder and wilder and more filled with unknowns than anyone alive now can imagine. This is not the last era of humanity that anything. We should still be protesting/fighting unchecked power.
  - immibis 2y ago
    There have been many last eras of humanity of things. The last era of gas lighting (lighting powered by gas, not the manipulation tactic). The last era of information being passed down orally. The last era of monarchs. The last era of human computers. I understand that you are saying there are no last eras of anything so this can't be the last era of something, and that's incorrect.
    - PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
      The post I was replying to was not worded as "the last era of X". It was worded as "the last era of humanity". Certainly things, practices, places, peoples, beliefs come and go. Humanity likely will end at some point, but that's not about to happen in any predictable way in the currently foreseeable future.
      - immibis 2y ago
        Incorrect. It was worded as "the last era of humanity doing X". It parses as "the last era of {humanity doing X}" and not "{the last era of humanity} doing X" (which isn't something that makes sense anyway).
energy123 2y ago
One thing is for sure. These technologies don't make protest or revolution any easier. They give asymmetric power to whoever wields them (the state) against whoever doesn't (a loose collection of angry people on the street without the same tools). This isn't the 1800s anymore where the most powerful tool was a gun, and you could distribute these symmetrically across state and people to keep the state in check. Surveillance, crowd control weapons, access to banking, control over media, eventually AI and widespread robotics, have properties that empower the state. In the context of mass protest, the status quo gets harder and harder to dislodge. None of this matters much while democracy is still existing, but it's a risk that's there. It makes the fall of democracy more of an absorbing state that you can't escape from.
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 2y ago
  The encryption gives asymmetric power to the people. Tor and Matrix for communications that can't be broken by the rich, no matter how powerful. Bitcoin for free transactions, vpn and torrent for the media etc.
  - hayst4ck 2y ago
    You have a lot more faith in technology than me. There is a strong history of compromising data at rest (such as in phone backups) and getting metadata either directly or through side channels. It's not very hard for me to imagine a system that tells you who is talking with who, when, and with what IPs no matter how anonymized you think you are. That all assumes good opsec too. My understanding is that Tor was compromised several years ago. Pegasus alone means that once you become a target, you're done. It also means these "defenses" are only generally available to the technically savvy.
    - EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 2y ago
      It's easy to encrypt the backups (don't use g$$gle or apple clouds, of course).
      - 2y ago

>it's likely the last era of humanity No. Just no. No matter what what the thing is. It just isn't. That's not a reason to NOT protest/fight unchecked power. It just isn't the reason to do it.

jackyinger 2y ago

That is a pretty disingenuous quotation, you cut it mid sentence destroying the context: > It's the most important time in human history to protest/fight unchecked power because it's likely the last era of humanity that we are going to be able to.

PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
I cut the context because the context doesn't matter. Anyone making the claim that this likely the last era of humanity that anything is just wrong. The future (even just the future of humanity) is longer and weirder and wilder and more filled with unknowns than anyone alive now can imagine. This is not the last era of humanity that anything. We should still be protesting/fighting unchecked power.
- immibis 2y ago
  There have been many last eras of humanity of things. The last era of gas lighting (lighting powered by gas, not the manipulation tactic). The last era of information being passed down orally. The last era of monarchs. The last era of human computers. I understand that you are saying there are no last eras of anything so this can't be the last era of something, and that's incorrect.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
    The post I was replying to was not worded as "the last era of X". It was worded as "the last era of humanity". Certainly things, practices, places, peoples, beliefs come and go. Humanity likely will end at some point, but that's not about to happen in any predictable way in the currently foreseeable future.
    - immibis 2y ago
      Incorrect. It was worded as "the last era of humanity doing X". It parses as "the last era of {humanity doing X}" and not "{the last era of humanity} doing X" (which isn't something that makes sense anyway).

energy123 2y ago

One thing is for sure. These technologies don't make protest or revolution any easier. They give asymmetric power to whoever wields them (the state) against whoever doesn't (a loose collection of angry people on the street without the same tools). This isn't the 1800s anymore where the most powerful tool was a gun, and you could distribute these symmetrically across state and people to keep the state in check. Surveillance, crowd control weapons, access to banking, control over media, eventually AI and widespread robotics, have properties that empower the state. In the context of mass protest, the status quo gets harder and harder to dislodge. None of this matters much while democracy is still existing, but it's a risk that's there. It makes the fall of democracy more of an absorbing state that you can't escape from.

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 2y ago
The encryption gives asymmetric power to the people. Tor and Matrix for communications that can't be broken by the rich, no matter how powerful. Bitcoin for free transactions, vpn and torrent for the media etc.
- hayst4ck 2y ago
  You have a lot more faith in technology than me. There is a strong history of compromising data at rest (such as in phone backups) and getting metadata either directly or through side channels. It's not very hard for me to imagine a system that tells you who is talking with who, when, and with what IPs no matter how anonymized you think you are. That all assumes good opsec too. My understanding is that Tor was compromised several years ago. Pegasus alone means that once you become a target, you're done. It also means these "defenses" are only generally available to the technically savvy.
  - EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 2y ago
    It's easy to encrypt the backups (don't use g$$gle or apple clouds, of course).
    - 2y ago