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I am hopping on Rust threads on HN very regularly and I have to tell you my anecdotal experience. Which is: people complaining about Rust zealots are much more
by pdimitar 2y ago
I am hopping on Rust threads on HN very regularly and I have to tell you my anecdotal experience.
Which is: people complaining about Rust zealots are much more than actual Rust zealots. Thinking of it, I haven't seen a proper Rust zealot on HN for at least a year at this point.
So I don't know, maybe do less cheap digs. Tearing down straw men is pretty boring to watch.
- chjj 2y agoWe have very different experiences then. Don't know what to tell you. Every interaction I've had with a rust programmer has led me to believe they are a toxic community of cultists. It's unlike any programming community I've seen.
- scns 2y ago> Every interaction I've had with a rust programmer has led me to believe they are a toxic community of cultists. Since the brain rates negative experiences more highly, it may have you believe such a generalisation, no?
- eru 2y agoI use Rust reasonably often. It's a decent language. Mostly more bearable than eg C++ or Go. > It's unlike any programming community I've seen. Oh, you clearly haven't hung out with the Haskellers in their prime.
- simonask 2y agoI mean, aren't you having such an interaction right now? Do you find this discussion toxic?
- pdimitar 2y agoWhat I find toxic is the claim of zealotry when I can't see any, not on HN anyway. So I called the poster out to show proof. So far there's none, except one Twitter post (because we all know that's the best technical discussion forum on the planet, clearly) which does not surprise me at all. So they are the ones who get triggered by something that does not exist. That is what is toxic. If you go around claiming fantasies and people call you out then that falls more under curiosity and discussion. Not toxicity.
- chjj 2y agoI wouldn't go so far as to say toxic in this case, but their reaction to me having a differing opinion is certainly characteristic of rust developer pathology. Not sure why rust attracts these people. This phenomenon should probably be studied.
- mplanchard 2y agoI think “impulse to defend a community you’re a part of when you feel it is being unfairly maligned” is a pretty standard human response pattern.
- pdimitar 2y ago- Insult a group with generalization - Members of the group respond non-kindly - "Help! I am being repressed!" I mean, maybe you should try more balanced take next time. Just a thought.
- chjj 2y agoI don't ever recall saying I'm being repressed. Could you point out where I said that? If you're referring to my above post, I'm pointing out that you're having a very emotional reaction to what I'm saying. That's typically what I see from rust developers.
- pdimitar 2y agoWhere do you see emotional reaction? All I do in each reply is point out how you generalize and get surprised that you are being called out. No emotional reactions. Show me where they are?
- chjj 2y ago[flagged]
- pdimitar 2y agoI am not upset with anything. That would imply I care what you think. What I dislike, if we can even call it that, is that you misrepresent intentionally and are falling victim to extremely easy to avoid ego trips like claiming that your anecdotal evidence is universal. That is not OK and is not intellectually fair. Be intellectually fair. If you are not then I posit that you don't belong in tech as you have no scientific and analytic approach to things. That's my takeaway here. You have left an extensive record of your bias in multiple comments. Including purposeful deflection and projection, as you try to make it out that I react emotionally. Which is false. You seem like a lost cause though. So bye.
- pdimitar 2y agoVery weird. Maybe you can point us at these "every interaction" so we can see for ourselves? Toxic people are everywhere on the net. That's not an interesting insight. If you point us at some lunatic on Twitter who loses their marbles over everything, that's not interesting either. Do you get trolled on actual technical forums though?
- chjj 2y ago[flagged]
- pdimitar 2y agoOne lunatic. Not a community full of them. I've been communicating with the "community" for years. Worst I saw was 2-3 people like the one you linked to, and a few more on Rust Users Forum that can be a bit gatekeep-ish at times. For 4-5 years in total. Do the math on averages. It is interesting how you can't see that you are inflating one nut case and extrapolating to an entire community.
- hyperbrainer 2y agoIt is not limited to rust zealots or whatever. I have seen this phenomenon of people criticising a certain category for doing something in the comment section on reddit/youtube, but never actually seen the people doing that thing, even browsing the most heavily downvoted comments. Some weird group mentality victimisation.
- PhilipRoman 2y agoI think in those cases usually the uploader has deleted said comments.
- chjj 2y ago> never actually seen the people doing that thing I'm happy to share then. Here's my most recent encounter with a rustacean: https://x.com/_chjj/status/1829989494298460636 https://x.com/_chjj/status/1829989494298460636 I asked if he/she/they had ever used the unsafe keyword. That was the response I got. It's usually some vile insult involving furry or transgender genitalia.
- mplanchard 2y agoDo you not think that the thread you’re currently on here on HN has a lot of rust programmers? So your “most recent encounter” is actually this thread. It’s trivial to find examples of people in any community who are a bit off the rails, but you shouldn’t let that define your perception of the community, especially given the fact that you’re currently in a context where your thesis doesn’t have much to support it.
- chjj 2y agoFair enough. I suppose it is my most recent encounter. The result: I still don't like the rust community. You may have different opinions. I see no issue here.
- pdimitar 2y agoI see the issue. Biased people like yourself don't belong in tech. For the record, I only picked Rust 5-ish years ago out of a 23 years of career. I know plenty of other languages. I was a skeptic at the start as well. Never generalized a pretty big group like you do though. You should be ashamed.
- wolvesechoes 2y agoFunny, because I could swear that for every comment that rises some criticism against Rust design/implementation/ergonomics/whatever, I find a dozen that "respectfully disagree", i.e. try very hard to deny validity of original claims. It is somewhat similar, actually, when someone states a negative opinion on Rust community and marketing around it. It is usually followed by those that say "you met wrong people". Of course, you won't find any examples in this thread xd.
- pdimitar 2y agoYou can swear on anything, does not make it any more true. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ All you do is defend very anecdotal evidence. Surely you can see this is not logically compelling.
- johnisgood 2y agoHe is replying to YOUR anecdotal experience though.
- pdimitar 2y agoWell, I don't generalize it and claim it as a truth. That's why I had a heated exchange here. Appreciate the perspective however. It's helpful.
- finnthehuman 2y agoIn case you're ESL, you're downvoted because in this context "I swear" means "here comes some anecdotal evidence" and not "I promise this is true."
- pdimitar 2y agoEnglish is not my mother tongue and while I speak and write it quite well, such nuances escape me. Thanks for the clarification. Appreciate it. <3
- sophacles 2y ago