4 ms·

I also think it is a healthy sign that Indian democracy is working well in at least some respects. Their great rival China is apparently kidnapping some childre

by alpine 14y ago

I also think it is a healthy sign that Indian democracy is working well in at least some respects. Their great rival China is apparently kidnapping some children who show signs of athletic potential and subjecting them to a life of intense training for a chance at an Olympic medal to promote the greatness of the mother country. India clearly hasn't chosen this route despite the pressure there must be to match China in all fields.

w1ntermute 14y ago
Indian democracy is anything but working well. Until the IOC forced the IOA (Indian Olympic Association) to fire him, the IOA's president was doing his job while imprisoned for embezzling an enormous amount of money during the construction process for the 2010 Commonwealth Games, held in New Delhi. Now that Kalmadi has been released due to "insufficient evidence", he's been reappointed as the president of the IOA. India might be a democracy in name, but rule of law is very poorly enforced.
- alpine 14y ago
  Yes, that the impression I have as well, corruption being pretty much woven into the fabric of life.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
maxwin 14y ago
I smell jealousy here. Although it's a fact that China spent a great sum of money and effort training their athletes and the children usually go though excess training(well, like Russia, Korea etc) , i don't think the athletes are being "kidnapped" or forced to become athletes. Many of the young athletes came from very poor family and this is a way to improve their lives (including their families and even the whole village). In fact, it's a privilege to be chosen.
- Someone 14y ago
  'Forced' is relative, but in http://youtu.be/qij0QULBBdk http://youtu.be/qij0QULBBdk, the kids do not look like they feel privileged.
- arn 14y ago
  I read this story today which makes it sound like, at least in this one case, the truth may be closer to alpine's take. http://www.sfgate.com/sports/ostler/article/Missy-Franklin-s-sunny-outlook-on-life-3761900.php http://www.sfgate.com/sports/ostler/article/Missy-Franklin-s... "Chinese 16-year-old Ye Shiwen astounded everyone with her finishing kick in the 400 IM. London's Daily Mail newspaper sent a reporter to Ye's hometown to interview her parents. They told of their only child being selected at age 6 to be schooled in an elite full-time swim program. At 11 she turned "pro" and entered what was basically a work camp for kiddie phenoms, one of 20 selected from a pool of 20,000 candidates. Between ages 11 to 14, Ye was allowed one brief visit with her parents each week and one brief phone call home, many of them very tearful. The parents talked of missing their daughter terribly, but Ye's mom said, "In the West, you pay a coach to turn you into an athlete. But in China, the state pays, so you have to sacrifice something in return.""
  - icegreentea 14y ago
    Should also point that the overall "Chinese Miracle" was partly fueled by vast migrations of poorer workers from inland areas to the coast to work. They typically have to leave their children/family in their villages, and get to see them once a year at Chinese New Year. This in no way makes the Chinese athletic development system 'right', and I don't mean to trivialize the family's blight, but I think it's important to have -some- context.
  - maxwin 14y ago
    Right. This is all true. I'm not supporting their system. But the parents are not forced. They have a choice. They choose to sacrifice something in return for a good economic life and future for themselves and their children. There are tens of millions of chinese workers who left their village or town to work at big cities. Many of them only see their children once or less per year. In comparison, the chosen athletes life is so much better. Sure, china should definitely improve their system but I don't think it's fair to demonize them when it's simply not true.
madiator 14y ago
Irrespective of whether your story about China is true or not, this is not an indicative of healthy democracy. If anything, its an indicative of unhealthy governance.
- alpine 14y ago
  I would have thought India aping China in the appropriation of youngsters to boost their medal count at the Olympics would be indicative of an unhealthy democracy, but whatever.

by alpine 14y ago

w1ntermute 14y ago

Indian democracy is anything but working well. Until the IOC forced the IOA (Indian Olympic Association) to fire him, the IOA's president was doing his job while imprisoned for embezzling an enormous amount of money during the construction process for the 2010 Commonwealth Games, held in New Delhi. Now that Kalmadi has been released due to "insufficient evidence", he's been reappointed as the president of the IOA. India might be a democracy in name, but rule of law is very poorly enforced.

alpine 14y ago
Yes, that the impression I have as well, corruption being pretty much woven into the fabric of life.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

maxwin 14y ago

I smell jealousy here. Although it's a fact that China spent a great sum of money and effort training their athletes and the children usually go though excess training(well, like Russia, Korea etc) , i don't think the athletes are being "kidnapped" or forced to become athletes. Many of the young athletes came from very poor family and this is a way to improve their lives (including their families and even the whole village). In fact, it's a privilege to be chosen.

Someone 14y ago
'Forced' is relative, but in http://youtu.be/qij0QULBBdk http://youtu.be/qij0QULBBdk, the kids do not look like they feel privileged.
arn 14y ago
I read this story today which makes it sound like, at least in this one case, the truth may be closer to alpine's take. http://www.sfgate.com/sports/ostler/article/Missy-Franklin-s-sunny-outlook-on-life-3761900.php http://www.sfgate.com/sports/ostler/article/Missy-Franklin-s... "Chinese 16-year-old Ye Shiwen astounded everyone with her finishing kick in the 400 IM. London's Daily Mail newspaper sent a reporter to Ye's hometown to interview her parents. They told of their only child being selected at age 6 to be schooled in an elite full-time swim program. At 11 she turned "pro" and entered what was basically a work camp for kiddie phenoms, one of 20 selected from a pool of 20,000 candidates. Between ages 11 to 14, Ye was allowed one brief visit with her parents each week and one brief phone call home, many of them very tearful. The parents talked of missing their daughter terribly, but Ye's mom said, "In the West, you pay a coach to turn you into an athlete. But in China, the state pays, so you have to sacrifice something in return.""
- icegreentea 14y ago
  Should also point that the overall "Chinese Miracle" was partly fueled by vast migrations of poorer workers from inland areas to the coast to work. They typically have to leave their children/family in their villages, and get to see them once a year at Chinese New Year. This in no way makes the Chinese athletic development system 'right', and I don't mean to trivialize the family's blight, but I think it's important to have -some- context.
- maxwin 14y ago
  Right. This is all true. I'm not supporting their system. But the parents are not forced. They have a choice. They choose to sacrifice something in return for a good economic life and future for themselves and their children. There are tens of millions of chinese workers who left their village or town to work at big cities. Many of them only see their children once or less per year. In comparison, the chosen athletes life is so much better. Sure, china should definitely improve their system but I don't think it's fair to demonize them when it's simply not true.

madiator 14y ago

Irrespective of whether your story about China is true or not, this is not an indicative of healthy democracy. If anything, its an indicative of unhealthy governance.

alpine 14y ago
I would have thought India aping China in the appropriation of youngsters to boost their medal count at the Olympics would be indicative of an unhealthy democracy, but whatever.