3 ms·

It would be rational if you would think killing a few (or a lot of) protesters will intimidate the rest of the country into submission. It didn't, but it could

by tpm 2y ago

It would be rational if you would think killing a few (or a lot of) protesters will intimidate the rest of the country into submission. It didn't, but it could have.

impossiblefork 2y ago
But nobody thinks that way. If they can kill your friends, they can round you up afterwards and kill you. Once it gets to that point, there's no reason not to immediately organize a military response.
- giraffe_lady 2y ago
  Hold on to that thought we're going to need it this summer.
  - impossiblefork 2y ago
    Ah, I'm Swedish, so I can't really help you.
- nkmnz 2y ago
  Almost every single authoritarian thinks that way. That’s how they stay in power. Please google Volksaufstand (1953), Hungarian Uprising (1956), Prague Spring (1968), Tiananmen (1989), Vilnius Massacre (1991)…
- PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
  >But nobody thinks that way. And yet history shows many (dozens?) of instance where that's exactly what most people thought.
- pjc50 2y ago
  Military responses are very hard to organize if you're not already the military. Having a bunch of demonstrators killed is usually the final step in consolidation of power. Especially if the rest of the public isn't 100% behind the demonstrators.
hayst4ck 2y ago
Timothy Snyder put his history of Ukraine class on YouTube. The lesson on the Maidan was done by a guest speaker. The presentation is mostly dry and the person isn't the best speaker, but the content was quality and very worth watching, especially if you have any beliefs in "color revolutions" or American imperialism: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg_CLI3xY58&list=PLh9mgdi4rNewfxO7LhBoz_1Mx1MaO6sw_&index=20 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg_CLI3xY58&list=PLh9mgdi4rN... It was now a revolt against произвол, an idea of arbitrariness tinged with tyranny, helplessness in the face of power, the feeling that the powers that be can do whatever they want to you, and you are helpless, that you are being treated as a plaything, as a thing and not as a human being, as an object and not as a subject, and the Maidan became a revolt against произвол, it became an insistence on being treated as a person and not as a thing, as a subject not as an object, and they began to call themselves on the Maidan the revolution of dignity. It seems that Yanukovych (Ukraine's corrupt Russian puppet leader) was counted on the fact that if you shock people this way (brutally beating up protestors), not enough to kill people, but enough to terrify them, the parents will freak out and they will pull their kids off the streets... (after many people's children were beaten) Suddenly you have parents joining their children on the streets, and that is the moment that creates the revolution...
- h2zizzle 2y ago
  >it became an insistence on being treated as a person and not as a thing, as a subject not as an object At the risk of inflammation: sounds like Black Lives Matter.
  - h2zizzle 2y ago
    Wishing the person who downvoted this an ironic encounter with their ignorance.

by tpm 2y ago

It would be rational if you would think killing a few (or a lot of) protesters will intimidate the rest of the country into submission. It didn't, but it could have.

impossiblefork 2y ago

But nobody thinks that way. If they can kill your friends, they can round you up afterwards and kill you. Once it gets to that point, there's no reason not to immediately organize a military response.

giraffe_lady 2y ago
Hold on to that thought we're going to need it this summer.
- impossiblefork 2y ago
  Ah, I'm Swedish, so I can't really help you.
nkmnz 2y ago
Almost every single authoritarian thinks that way. That’s how they stay in power. Please google Volksaufstand (1953), Hungarian Uprising (1956), Prague Spring (1968), Tiananmen (1989), Vilnius Massacre (1991)…
PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago
>But nobody thinks that way. And yet history shows many (dozens?) of instance where that's exactly what most people thought.
pjc50 2y ago
Military responses are very hard to organize if you're not already the military. Having a bunch of demonstrators killed is usually the final step in consolidation of power. Especially if the rest of the public isn't 100% behind the demonstrators.

hayst4ck 2y ago

Timothy Snyder put his history of Ukraine class on YouTube. The lesson on the Maidan was done by a guest speaker. The presentation is mostly dry and the person isn't the best speaker, but the content was quality and very worth watching, especially if you have any beliefs in "color revolutions" or American imperialism: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg_CLI3xY58&list=PLh9mgdi4rNewfxO7LhBoz_1Mx1MaO6sw_&index=20 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg_CLI3xY58&list=PLh9mgdi4rN... It was now a revolt against произвол, an idea of arbitrariness tinged with tyranny, helplessness in the face of power, the feeling that the powers that be can do whatever they want to you, and you are helpless, that you are being treated as a plaything, as a thing and not as a human being, as an object and not as a subject, and the Maidan became a revolt against произвол, it became an insistence on being treated as a person and not as a thing, as a subject not as an object, and they began to call themselves on the Maidan the revolution of dignity. It seems that Yanukovych (Ukraine's corrupt Russian puppet leader) was counted on the fact that if you shock people this way (brutally beating up protestors), not enough to kill people, but enough to terrify them, the parents will freak out and they will pull their kids off the streets... (after many people's children were beaten) Suddenly you have parents joining their children on the streets, and that is the moment that creates the revolution...

h2zizzle 2y ago
>it became an insistence on being treated as a person and not as a thing, as a subject not as an object At the risk of inflammation: sounds like Black Lives Matter.
- h2zizzle 2y ago
  Wishing the person who downvoted this an ironic encounter with their ignorance.