7 ms·

Is there any counter measure for this? Hardcore hearing protection? Noise cancelling headphones? Handheld sound insulation "shield"?

rasz 2y ago
FPV drone blowing up the LRAD. Total cost below $1000.
- pclmulqdq 2y ago
  At that point, you should realize that a round of 7.62 is under $1 and equally effective.
  - rtkwe 2y ago
    An LRAD is a big speaker array so you'd need a lot of shots to take out enough of the array or a lucky shot and angle to hit some control box.
- red-iron-pine 2y ago
  if you're bringing FPV drones you're well past the point of protesting
zoklet-enjoyer 2y ago
https://youtu.be/CXKTBQBugIA https://youtu.be/CXKTBQBugIA
- amatecha 2y ago
  Probably also worth watching a related video from the same channel: "Defeating Microwave Weapons! - Part 1" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg_aUOSLuRo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg_aUOSLuRo
malfist 2y ago
The report I read said it relied on bone conduction, so hearing protection wouldn't do a whole lot. Only things that can attenuate low frequency sounds before it gets to the ear. So muff style headphones might work, or mass
- darepublic 2y ago
  Can you have a device which upon detecting the frequency emits some kind of counter vibration that cancels out th attack?
  - XorNot 2y ago
    It's not theoretically impossible but it is completely impractical to engineer such a thing - destructive interference has to be precisely matched to cancel out a sound, and if it's not you just get "beats" as the phases overlap. And that match depends on matching frequency and distance - or having a very fast tuning system, and then you've got to do all this in a device that's not just another LRAD (at which point you're back to "the best defense is a good offense").
  - d1sxeyes 2y ago
    This is how active noise cancellation works in headphones. You stick little microphones on the outside of the headphones, then play back what’s picked up through the headphones themselves but with a very slight delay so all the peaks and troughs match up. The problem is that you need to put out sounds at least as loud, and that’s a pretty bad thing to get even slightly wrong if the energy levels are that high.
    - treyd 2y ago
      You do it with the waves inverted otherwise the delay would have to be dynamic and frequency dependent.
      - fer 2y ago
        Not sure how all NC earpones work, but I'd say you still need the delay to properly process the sound and mix it with whatever is playing (unless you rawdog the input flipped and amplified directly in analog). Normally sounds don't change in frequency that often so that's good enough (tm). I can hear myself typing now (short burst of sound), but the washing machine nearby, which is louder without earphones, is completely gone.
impossiblefork 2y ago
Once there's violence targeting you, the solution is to bring real weapons and resolve it using ordinary military tactics, that is, you kill the operator.
- seabass-labrax 2y ago
  "Attack is the best form of defence" is a well-grounded doctrine, but it's not mutually exclusive with protecting yourself. Armies use armoured vehicles even though armour-piercing shells exist, for example. It's also not always necessary; actively using force against the authorities would essentially be the start of a civil war, and personally I don't think starting a civil war is more likely to result in change than peaceful protest. For instance, Serbia is to some extent reliant on the EU, and has expressed an interest in joining. That should force the current government to reconsider and crack down on corruption much better than an attempted coup would. Full disclosure: I have never been to Serbia and this is just my personal feeling. But for expressly peaceful protests to seamlessly turn into a full-blown revolution, and a successful one at that, seems incredibly unlikely to me.
  - impossiblefork 2y ago
    Yes, but these kinds of systems are not actually very good as military weapons. They are easily countered by simply shooting the operators.
    - dmurray 2y ago
      Are they? They seem easy enough to operate remotely, or by a guy in a tank or a bulletproof Popemobile or whatever.
      - impossiblefork 2y ago
        It's probably something like a horn, or a speaker. A couple of bullets are probably enough to break it.
- 2y ago
vvchvb 2y ago
[dead]
zozbot234 2y ago
Use some thick metal plate as a shield and let it reflect the sound back towards the source, most likely. Or something foamy, like mattresses or the like, to just attenuate it. But I don't think any of that would protect you if you're facing 160 dB (though it would indeed be useful if you're farther from the source); the appropriate tactic then is indeed to disperse uniformly over a larger area and make it infeasible for your adversary to launch a concentrated attack. (After all, this is how actual present-day military tactics copes with the existence of much older "area denial" weapons, such as machine guns, tanks etc.) Your protests should then become more "hit and run" in style, relying on highly visible gimmicks rather than mere physical presence to demonstrate continued support.
- lor_louis 2y ago
  That's the exact same circumstances that lead to the development of guerilla warfare. I don't know how you'd go around creating a "highly visible gimmick" that has any lasting impact though.
  - zozbot234 2y ago
    The point is to simply demonstrate mass support by any means available. You can do it by gathering as a large crowd, but when that becomes a vulnerability your tactics must evolve somehow.
  - amatecha 2y ago
    Dunno, ask Tesla owners how they're feeling about driving their vehicle and parking it, lately. On that note, ask Musk how he feels about the trending direction of his stock value. The highly visible gimmick of swastikas spraypainted on cars, torched charging stations & Cybertrucks, etc. seems to have an effect. Probably a lasting one, though that remains to be seen of course.
  - kaybe 2y ago
    Umbrellas in Hongkong come to mind.
    - 2y ago
1970-01-01 2y ago
For all we know, certain types of deafness may be immune.
volemo 2y ago
You could get another one of those machines and turn it on with a precisely calculated delay. :P

rasz 2y ago

FPV drone blowing up the LRAD. Total cost below $1000.

pclmulqdq 2y ago
At that point, you should realize that a round of 7.62 is under $1 and equally effective.
- rtkwe 2y ago
  An LRAD is a big speaker array so you'd need a lot of shots to take out enough of the array or a lucky shot and angle to hit some control box.
red-iron-pine 2y ago
if you're bringing FPV drones you're well past the point of protesting

zoklet-enjoyer 2y ago

https://youtu.be/CXKTBQBugIA https://youtu.be/CXKTBQBugIA

amatecha 2y ago
Probably also worth watching a related video from the same channel: "Defeating Microwave Weapons! - Part 1" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg_aUOSLuRo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg_aUOSLuRo

malfist 2y ago

The report I read said it relied on bone conduction, so hearing protection wouldn't do a whole lot. Only things that can attenuate low frequency sounds before it gets to the ear. So muff style headphones might work, or mass

darepublic 2y ago
Can you have a device which upon detecting the frequency emits some kind of counter vibration that cancels out th attack?
- XorNot 2y ago
  It's not theoretically impossible but it is completely impractical to engineer such a thing - destructive interference has to be precisely matched to cancel out a sound, and if it's not you just get "beats" as the phases overlap. And that match depends on matching frequency and distance - or having a very fast tuning system, and then you've got to do all this in a device that's not just another LRAD (at which point you're back to "the best defense is a good offense").
- d1sxeyes 2y ago
  This is how active noise cancellation works in headphones. You stick little microphones on the outside of the headphones, then play back what’s picked up through the headphones themselves but with a very slight delay so all the peaks and troughs match up. The problem is that you need to put out sounds at least as loud, and that’s a pretty bad thing to get even slightly wrong if the energy levels are that high.
  - treyd 2y ago
    You do it with the waves inverted otherwise the delay would have to be dynamic and frequency dependent.
    - fer 2y ago
      Not sure how all NC earpones work, but I'd say you still need the delay to properly process the sound and mix it with whatever is playing (unless you rawdog the input flipped and amplified directly in analog). Normally sounds don't change in frequency that often so that's good enough (tm). I can hear myself typing now (short burst of sound), but the washing machine nearby, which is louder without earphones, is completely gone.

impossiblefork 2y ago

Once there's violence targeting you, the solution is to bring real weapons and resolve it using ordinary military tactics, that is, you kill the operator.

seabass-labrax 2y ago
"Attack is the best form of defence" is a well-grounded doctrine, but it's not mutually exclusive with protecting yourself. Armies use armoured vehicles even though armour-piercing shells exist, for example. It's also not always necessary; actively using force against the authorities would essentially be the start of a civil war, and personally I don't think starting a civil war is more likely to result in change than peaceful protest. For instance, Serbia is to some extent reliant on the EU, and has expressed an interest in joining. That should force the current government to reconsider and crack down on corruption much better than an attempted coup would. Full disclosure: I have never been to Serbia and this is just my personal feeling. But for expressly peaceful protests to seamlessly turn into a full-blown revolution, and a successful one at that, seems incredibly unlikely to me.
- impossiblefork 2y ago
  Yes, but these kinds of systems are not actually very good as military weapons. They are easily countered by simply shooting the operators.
  - dmurray 2y ago
    Are they? They seem easy enough to operate remotely, or by a guy in a tank or a bulletproof Popemobile or whatever.
    - impossiblefork 2y ago
      It's probably something like a horn, or a speaker. A couple of bullets are probably enough to break it.
2y ago

vvchvb 2y ago

[dead]

zozbot234 2y ago

Use some thick metal plate as a shield and let it reflect the sound back towards the source, most likely. Or something foamy, like mattresses or the like, to just attenuate it. But I don't think any of that would protect you if you're facing 160 dB (though it would indeed be useful if you're farther from the source); the appropriate tactic then is indeed to disperse uniformly over a larger area and make it infeasible for your adversary to launch a concentrated attack. (After all, this is how actual present-day military tactics copes with the existence of much older "area denial" weapons, such as machine guns, tanks etc.) Your protests should then become more "hit and run" in style, relying on highly visible gimmicks rather than mere physical presence to demonstrate continued support.

lor_louis 2y ago
That's the exact same circumstances that lead to the development of guerilla warfare. I don't know how you'd go around creating a "highly visible gimmick" that has any lasting impact though.
- zozbot234 2y ago
  The point is to simply demonstrate mass support by any means available. You can do it by gathering as a large crowd, but when that becomes a vulnerability your tactics must evolve somehow.
- amatecha 2y ago
  Dunno, ask Tesla owners how they're feeling about driving their vehicle and parking it, lately. On that note, ask Musk how he feels about the trending direction of his stock value. The highly visible gimmick of swastikas spraypainted on cars, torched charging stations & Cybertrucks, etc. seems to have an effect. Probably a lasting one, though that remains to be seen of course.
- kaybe 2y ago
  Umbrellas in Hongkong come to mind.
  - 2y ago

1970-01-01 2y ago

For all we know, certain types of deafness may be immune.

volemo 2y ago

You could get another one of those machines and turn it on with a precisely calculated delay. :P