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So because in 1966 Egypt didn’t give them citizenship, Israel can do the same in 2025 plus occupying then military, displace them, jail them and kill them? Unti

So because in 1966 Egypt didn’t give them citizenship, Israel can do the same in 2025 plus occupying then military, displace them, jail them and kill them? Until when? 10 years more? 100? 1000? Here’s more to this story https://conquer-and-divide.btselem.org/map-en.html https://conquer-and-divide.btselem.org/map-en.html

tome 2y ago
The point is if they wanted a state they would have agitated for one during the UN Resolution 181 vote. But they didn't. Or they would have agitated for it between 1948 and 1967, when they were occupied by Egypt and Jordan. But they didn't. They didn't attack Egypt and Jordan to try to force their hand to give them a state. They attacked Israel, when Israel didn't occupy any land outside its currently "internationally recognised borders"! And now they supposedly want a state on the land that they already had? They only decided they wanted a state on that land once Israel occupied it. Here's Hasan Zomlot, Palestinian ambassador to the UK, claiming yesterday that "We will leave back to our homes inside the '48 areas, we will go back to our land, we will go back to Yaffa and Haifa!". https://x.com/koshercockney/status/1901248223580160056 https://x.com/koshercockney/status/1901248223580160056 I'm not surprised Israel is being cautious.
- mmustapic 2y ago
  Maybe they don't like Israeli occupation which has been going on for 58 years, while their access to land has been reduced more and more. And besides, I'm not even talking about statehood, my main point is Israel's awful treatment of Palestinians in the West Bank, based only on ethnicity.
  - tome 2y ago
    Maybe they don't like it, but if so then I would have thought they would have chosen statehood when they were offered it in 2000 or 2008. Moreover, they never even had any land to begin with! No country of Palestine has ever existed. To reiterate, it was previously Jordanian-occupied, British-governed, Ottoman-ruled. Something else is clearly going on, beyond what you're saying. I don't like the word "treat" in this context. I don't believe Israel "treats" Palestinians in any way. Rather, the state of Israel has a particular policy on the Palestinian issue because of their shared history, no small part of which is the Palestinians repeatedly attempting to eliminate Israel. But if you insist on using the word "treat", then I'll add that I don't like the way Palestine treats the Israelis either. Israel's policy is not based on ethnicity, it's based on citizenship, as is usual in a western democracy. Arab citizens of Israel have the same relationship to the state as any other citizens of Israel, for example. I agree that many Palestinians are in an awful situation. I disagree that Israel bears the blame or the responsibility to resolve the issue.
    - mmustapic 2y ago
      So the country that military occupies the territory where the Palestinian live, jails them, shoots them, restricts their movement, restricts their ability to build, restricts their airspace and borders, and they bear no responsibility? Israel’s primary policy is ethnicity, just check the “ Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish People” enacted in 2018.
      - tome 2y ago
        I just can't understand, if they are suffering all that, why they didn't jump at the chance for their own state one of the many times they were offered one. It's not as though Mahmood Abbas or Yasser Arafat are hated Palestinian figures for turning down a state. Something else must be going on.
        mmustapic 2y ago
        So if they don’t accept the offer Israel is giving them then they must suffer? It’s either what Israel offers or military occupation?
        tome 2y ago
        You're presenting that dichotomy, not me. I'm sure they have plenty of possible courses of action. I'm just trying to say that it's not obvious to me that they actually want a state, and if they don't then there's not much Israel can do about the situation.
        mmustapic 2y ago
        Sure there is, they can stop the military occupation and leave.
        tome 2y ago
        Interesting idea! How do you think it would turn out? You might like to reference in your answer the time in 2005 when Israel did exactly that, and the consequences that occurred on Oct 7 2023.

tome 2y ago

The point is if they wanted a state they would have agitated for one during the UN Resolution 181 vote. But they didn't. Or they would have agitated for it between 1948 and 1967, when they were occupied by Egypt and Jordan. But they didn't. They didn't attack Egypt and Jordan to try to force their hand to give them a state. They attacked Israel, when Israel didn't occupy any land outside its currently "internationally recognised borders"! And now they supposedly want a state on the land that they already had? They only decided they wanted a state on that land once Israel occupied it. Here's Hasan Zomlot, Palestinian ambassador to the UK, claiming yesterday that "We will leave back to our homes inside the '48 areas, we will go back to our land, we will go back to Yaffa and Haifa!". https://x.com/koshercockney/status/1901248223580160056 https://x.com/koshercockney/status/1901248223580160056 I'm not surprised Israel is being cautious.

mmustapic 2y ago
Maybe they don't like Israeli occupation which has been going on for 58 years, while their access to land has been reduced more and more. And besides, I'm not even talking about statehood, my main point is Israel's awful treatment of Palestinians in the West Bank, based only on ethnicity.
- tome 2y ago
  Maybe they don't like it, but if so then I would have thought they would have chosen statehood when they were offered it in 2000 or 2008. Moreover, they never even had any land to begin with! No country of Palestine has ever existed. To reiterate, it was previously Jordanian-occupied, British-governed, Ottoman-ruled. Something else is clearly going on, beyond what you're saying. I don't like the word "treat" in this context. I don't believe Israel "treats" Palestinians in any way. Rather, the state of Israel has a particular policy on the Palestinian issue because of their shared history, no small part of which is the Palestinians repeatedly attempting to eliminate Israel. But if you insist on using the word "treat", then I'll add that I don't like the way Palestine treats the Israelis either. Israel's policy is not based on ethnicity, it's based on citizenship, as is usual in a western democracy. Arab citizens of Israel have the same relationship to the state as any other citizens of Israel, for example. I agree that many Palestinians are in an awful situation. I disagree that Israel bears the blame or the responsibility to resolve the issue.
  - mmustapic 2y ago
    So the country that military occupies the territory where the Palestinian live, jails them, shoots them, restricts their movement, restricts their ability to build, restricts their airspace and borders, and they bear no responsibility? Israel’s primary policy is ethnicity, just check the “ Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish People” enacted in 2018.
    - tome 2y ago
      I just can't understand, if they are suffering all that, why they didn't jump at the chance for their own state one of the many times they were offered one. It's not as though Mahmood Abbas or Yasser Arafat are hated Palestinian figures for turning down a state. Something else must be going on.
      - mmustapic 2y ago
        So if they don’t accept the offer Israel is giving them then they must suffer? It’s either what Israel offers or military occupation?
        tome 2y ago
        You're presenting that dichotomy, not me. I'm sure they have plenty of possible courses of action. I'm just trying to say that it's not obvious to me that they actually want a state, and if they don't then there's not much Israel can do about the situation.
        mmustapic 2y ago
        Sure there is, they can stop the military occupation and leave.
        tome 2y ago
        Interesting idea! How do you think it would turn out? You might like to reference in your answer the time in 2005 when Israel did exactly that, and the consequences that occurred on Oct 7 2023.