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I run an offline-first app[0] that has a sync mechanism (over Yjs). To solve server longevity we just sell you a lifetime license of the app and allow for file-

by oDot 2y ago

I run an offline-first app[0] that has a sync mechanism (over Yjs). To solve server longevity we just sell you a lifetime license of the app and allow for file-based sync. While I agree with the sentiment of the article most users do not even know what a server is, much less capable of self-hosting. Syncing a folder over Dropbox or Google Drive, though, is simple enough. [0]: https://nestful.app https://nestful.app

apitman 2y ago
This pretty much matches the way I think it should be done ideally. I'm still pretty new to local-first though. Are there data formats or types of apps that don't lend themselves well to file-based sync? For your app, how do notifications of changes get propagated? Does it depend on the backend (Google Drive, etc) supporting that, or does it just do polling or something?
- oDot 2y ago
  For the desktop version just watching the directory for changes is enough to achieve that. Nestful is not aware the files are syncing, it just reads files as they are.
  - apitman 2y ago
    Ah ok so Nestful doesn't integrate with Dropbox/Drive directly, but if the user uses something like them for sync, the app picks up the changes?
    - oDot 2y ago
      Yes, exactly right. We offer our own paid sync if users would like to save the hassle
wim 2y ago
Sure but not all backend operations can always be mapped to flat files on Dropbox, like when you have certain real-time collaboration features, syncing on graph/tree-like data structures, or perhaps permissions in case of a company tool. That's why longevity of the "data" aspect is usually easy to solve when a copy of the data is already local, but then you still risk losing a part of what it is that makes the app when there is no way to run the app's syncing backend yourself.
- oDot 2y ago
  It serves more use cases than you might think, especially with CRDTs. Nestful is a tree structure and uses Yjs for sync. Permissions can be done in the file system level. Yes, I agree this is not an end-all be all solution, but the tradeoff is often worth it.
  - wim 2y ago
    Yep love CRDTs but I think we are in agreement that it's a matter of trade-offs whether or not to use a backend (beyond a shared fs service). The idea with ejectable is that if you've decided the trade-off of a backend is worth it to enable certain features/UX, then it's a good way to ensure longevity of the entire app for users.

by oDot 2y ago

apitman 2y ago

This pretty much matches the way I think it should be done ideally. I'm still pretty new to local-first though. Are there data formats or types of apps that don't lend themselves well to file-based sync? For your app, how do notifications of changes get propagated? Does it depend on the backend (Google Drive, etc) supporting that, or does it just do polling or something?

oDot 2y ago
For the desktop version just watching the directory for changes is enough to achieve that. Nestful is not aware the files are syncing, it just reads files as they are.
- apitman 2y ago
  Ah ok so Nestful doesn't integrate with Dropbox/Drive directly, but if the user uses something like them for sync, the app picks up the changes?
  - oDot 2y ago
    Yes, exactly right. We offer our own paid sync if users would like to save the hassle

wim 2y ago

Sure but not all backend operations can always be mapped to flat files on Dropbox, like when you have certain real-time collaboration features, syncing on graph/tree-like data structures, or perhaps permissions in case of a company tool. That's why longevity of the "data" aspect is usually easy to solve when a copy of the data is already local, but then you still risk losing a part of what it is that makes the app when there is no way to run the app's syncing backend yourself.

oDot 2y ago
It serves more use cases than you might think, especially with CRDTs. Nestful is a tree structure and uses Yjs for sync. Permissions can be done in the file system level. Yes, I agree this is not an end-all be all solution, but the tradeoff is often worth it.
- wim 2y ago
  Yep love CRDTs but I think we are in agreement that it's a matter of trade-offs whether or not to use a backend (beyond a shared fs service). The idea with ejectable is that if you've decided the trade-off of a backend is worth it to enable certain features/UX, then it's a good way to ensure longevity of the entire app for users.