4 ms·

At this point, why would you travel to the US? People with valid visas and green cards are being denied entry, strip searched, detained indefinitely, and denied

At this point, why would you travel to the US? People with valid visas and green cards are being denied entry, strip searched, detained indefinitely, and denied prescription medicine. The government is ignoring judicial orders regarding immigration and deportation. 1. https://www.luxtimes.lu/luxembourg/us-resident-violently-interrogated-on-way-home-from-luxembourg/49518825.html https://www.luxtimes.lu/luxembourg/us-resident-violently-int... 2. https://www.newsweek.com/rubio-touts-migrants-sent-el-salvador-after-judge-orders-planes-return-2045576 https://www.newsweek.com/rubio-touts-migrants-sent-el-salvad...

YZF 2y ago
What percentage of travelers are running into problems? How does that compare to other countries? How does it compare to your probability of being detained where you are anyways? Not to belittle the anecdotal issues but without any baseline or comparison this is meaningless scare mongering. People are denied entry, detained and strip searches in every border all over the world, every day, all the time. If you think staying home is fine you'll find people are arrested at their home, even killed, by law enforcement at their home in many countries all the time. 1. https://news.sky.com/story/man-dies-after-being-arrested-by-border-force-officers-at-manchester-airport-13313661 https://news.sky.com/story/man-dies-after-being-arrested-by-... 2. https://apnews.com/article/germany-arrest-american-spying-china-b4923db9576a90e2dc4ff52365bdf1a4 https://apnews.com/article/germany-arrest-american-spying-ch...
- healsdata 2y ago
  Your first article immediately says that the government is investigating and other articles point out the man was found carrying cocaine. Your second article points out that someone was arrested on suspicion of a crime and will go on to face a judicial process to establish innocence or guilt. If you think those two cases are comparable to the two I provided, I'm not sure we can have a productive discussion on this matter, especially considered you entirely ignored the second point of my post.
  - YZF 2y ago
    Which of your points have I ignored exactly? You're ignoring my point which is that similar things happen all over the world all the time and without any comparative data they are just anecdotes. Is the Trump administration applying a different policy? Absolutely. Does that make the US materially less safe for most of us? Open question. Almost certainly not. So yes, we're not going to have a productive discussion when I am coming at things from a fact based view point and you are presenting anecdotes as being relevant.
    - locopati 2y ago
      what they're doing at the border now, they'll do to citizens within the country later. so, yes, this makes the US materially less safe.
      - YZF 2y ago
        Maybe yes maybe no. We had some of this in the previous Trump presidency and despite the fear mongering we got over it. The US has plenty of checks and balances it seems (I'm not American so easy for me to say ;) ). We also had democratic governments that didn't make any material changes to what are questionable immigration practices or in some cases made things worse.
- text0404 2y ago
  these incidents - among an escalating number of other, similar incidents - are a grave betrayal of the US’ purported values, especially when it claims to be morally better than "other countries" who routinely violate the rights of people who aren't breaking any laws (in one case, literal torture techniques were used on a permanent resident of the US). furthermore, the point is to call these things out as soon as they happen in order to prevent a situation where these occurrences become statistically significant enough for you to pay attention. the idea is to prevent wide-scale violations, not to sit back and allow them to continue until it reaches a point of normalization.
  - YZF 2y ago
    I disagree. What we have here is that random incidents that happen all the time are seized on to make a political point. From that linked article: " The US CBP denied the allegations, with assistant commissioner of public affairs Hilton Beckham telling Newsweek: “These claims are blatantly false with respect to CBP.” " There is no "escalating number" of similar incidents. If there are then show me the numbers. It's not news that border guards occasionally get power trips and take it out on whoever happens to be there. I can find you dozens of examples over the year[s] (and if I've heard of dozens there's many more). This is out of 10's of millions or more entries. When you're arrested you also might be strip searched, forced to shower, and other inconveniences. Is it great? No. Is it new? Not really. What we need to call out isn't the US not living up perfectly to its purported values. That's not exactly news. Civil forfeiture anyone? What we need to call out is the crazy political climate and people becoming hysterical over anecdotes. If we do see a clear pattern that things are shifting in a major way- then we'll talk. Having a fact based, not an emotion based, political discourse is the important thing.
    - text0404 2y ago
      and i disagree with you. once again, these are facts and numbers - it's not enough to wait until the situation becomes so dire that we no longer have the ability to legally, meaningfully respond and reverse our circumstances. it's also disingenuous (at best) to downplay these violations of rights ("this happens all the time", "they gave him a shower", etc) - this is the normalization of abuse of power. whenever these violations/abuses have happened they've been wrong, and we should always call them out as wrong and act to prevent them from happening again. furthermore, if you only care about statistics then abuses of vulnerable populations must be acceptable unless they hit some threshold of statistical significance. you can excuse horrific acts based on the idea that a minority is only a small percentage of the total population or that their abuse is only a small percentage of total abuse, as you're doing here. that's the point of creating a social system which protects everyone - that people who comprise a minority are not singled out and abused. murderers and serial killers also target relatively small percentages of the population, but we don't allow them to roam freely. here is the border czar saying he doesn't care about court orders: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/live-updates/donald-trump-second-term/?id=119864095 https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/live-updates/donald-trump-se... here is a Brown professor who was deported despite a court order: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/doctor-brown-university-deported-lebanon-despite-us-judges-order-2025-03-16/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/doctor-brown-university-dep... when the government no longer cares about its own values, laws, and separation of powers, we no longer have a government of the people. this is a an existential issue, not a "wait and see" situation.

YZF 2y ago

What percentage of travelers are running into problems? How does that compare to other countries? How does it compare to your probability of being detained where you are anyways? Not to belittle the anecdotal issues but without any baseline or comparison this is meaningless scare mongering. People are denied entry, detained and strip searches in every border all over the world, every day, all the time. If you think staying home is fine you'll find people are arrested at their home, even killed, by law enforcement at their home in many countries all the time. 1. https://news.sky.com/story/man-dies-after-being-arrested-by-border-force-officers-at-manchester-airport-13313661 https://news.sky.com/story/man-dies-after-being-arrested-by-... 2. https://apnews.com/article/germany-arrest-american-spying-china-b4923db9576a90e2dc4ff52365bdf1a4 https://apnews.com/article/germany-arrest-american-spying-ch...

healsdata 2y ago
Your first article immediately says that the government is investigating and other articles point out the man was found carrying cocaine. Your second article points out that someone was arrested on suspicion of a crime and will go on to face a judicial process to establish innocence or guilt. If you think those two cases are comparable to the two I provided, I'm not sure we can have a productive discussion on this matter, especially considered you entirely ignored the second point of my post.
- YZF 2y ago
  Which of your points have I ignored exactly? You're ignoring my point which is that similar things happen all over the world all the time and without any comparative data they are just anecdotes. Is the Trump administration applying a different policy? Absolutely. Does that make the US materially less safe for most of us? Open question. Almost certainly not. So yes, we're not going to have a productive discussion when I am coming at things from a fact based view point and you are presenting anecdotes as being relevant.
  - locopati 2y ago
    what they're doing at the border now, they'll do to citizens within the country later. so, yes, this makes the US materially less safe.
    - YZF 2y ago
      Maybe yes maybe no. We had some of this in the previous Trump presidency and despite the fear mongering we got over it. The US has plenty of checks and balances it seems (I'm not American so easy for me to say ;) ). We also had democratic governments that didn't make any material changes to what are questionable immigration practices or in some cases made things worse.
text0404 2y ago
these incidents - among an escalating number of other, similar incidents - are a grave betrayal of the US’ purported values, especially when it claims to be morally better than "other countries" who routinely violate the rights of people who aren't breaking any laws (in one case, literal torture techniques were used on a permanent resident of the US). furthermore, the point is to call these things out as soon as they happen in order to prevent a situation where these occurrences become statistically significant enough for you to pay attention. the idea is to prevent wide-scale violations, not to sit back and allow them to continue until it reaches a point of normalization.
- YZF 2y ago
  I disagree. What we have here is that random incidents that happen all the time are seized on to make a political point. From that linked article: " The US CBP denied the allegations, with assistant commissioner of public affairs Hilton Beckham telling Newsweek: “These claims are blatantly false with respect to CBP.” " There is no "escalating number" of similar incidents. If there are then show me the numbers. It's not news that border guards occasionally get power trips and take it out on whoever happens to be there. I can find you dozens of examples over the year[s] (and if I've heard of dozens there's many more). This is out of 10's of millions or more entries. When you're arrested you also might be strip searched, forced to shower, and other inconveniences. Is it great? No. Is it new? Not really. What we need to call out isn't the US not living up perfectly to its purported values. That's not exactly news. Civil forfeiture anyone? What we need to call out is the crazy political climate and people becoming hysterical over anecdotes. If we do see a clear pattern that things are shifting in a major way- then we'll talk. Having a fact based, not an emotion based, political discourse is the important thing.
  - text0404 2y ago
    and i disagree with you. once again, these are facts and numbers - it's not enough to wait until the situation becomes so dire that we no longer have the ability to legally, meaningfully respond and reverse our circumstances. it's also disingenuous (at best) to downplay these violations of rights ("this happens all the time", "they gave him a shower", etc) - this is the normalization of abuse of power. whenever these violations/abuses have happened they've been wrong, and we should always call them out as wrong and act to prevent them from happening again. furthermore, if you only care about statistics then abuses of vulnerable populations must be acceptable unless they hit some threshold of statistical significance. you can excuse horrific acts based on the idea that a minority is only a small percentage of the total population or that their abuse is only a small percentage of total abuse, as you're doing here. that's the point of creating a social system which protects everyone - that people who comprise a minority are not singled out and abused. murderers and serial killers also target relatively small percentages of the population, but we don't allow them to roam freely. here is the border czar saying he doesn't care about court orders: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/live-updates/donald-trump-second-term/?id=119864095 https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/live-updates/donald-trump-se... here is a Brown professor who was deported despite a court order: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/doctor-brown-university-deported-lebanon-despite-us-judges-order-2025-03-16/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/doctor-brown-university-dep... when the government no longer cares about its own values, laws, and separation of powers, we no longer have a government of the people. this is a an existential issue, not a "wait and see" situation.