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This is something that I struggle with for AI programming. I actually like writing the code myself. Like how someone might enjoy knitting or model building or

This is something that I struggle with for AI programming. I actually like writing the code myself. Like how someone might enjoy knitting or model building or painting or some other "tedious" activity. Using AI to generate my code just takes all the fun out of it for me.

deadbabe 2y ago
I don’t enjoy writing unit tests but fortunately this is one task LLMs seem to be very good at and isn’t high stakes, they can exhaustively create test cases for all kinds of conditions, and can torture test your code without mercy. This is the only true improvement LLMs have made to my enjoyment.
- rileymichael 2y ago
  except they are not good at it. the unit tests you'll have written will be filled with (slow) mocks with tautological assertions, create no reusable test fixtures, etc.
  - chamomeal 2y ago
    Sounds just like human-written test suites lol
    - rileymichael 2y ago
      of course — that’s what they’re trained on after all. most treat tests as a burden / afterthought, propagating the same issues from codebase to codebase, never improving. i wouldn’t consider those good either.
- layer8 2y ago
  Saying that writing unit tests isn’t high stakes is a dubious statement. The very purpose of unit tests is to make sure that programming errors are caught that may very well be high stakes.
  - falcor84 2y ago
    However high the stakes are, a bug in test code is not as much of an issue as a bug in the production code.
    - layer8 2y ago
      It is as much of an issue if it prevents a bug in production code from being detected before it occurs in production. Which is the very purpose of unit tests.
    - optimalsolver 2y ago
      What? Bugs in the test code are what lead to bugs in production code.
      - falcor84 2y ago
        That is exactly it. A bug in test code may or may not lead to a bug in production code, while a bug in production code IS a bug in production code
stephantul 2y ago
This so much. I love coding. I might be the person that still paints stuff by hand long after image generation has made actual paintings superfluous, but it is what it is.
- simonw 2y ago
  One analogy that works for me is to consider mural painting. Artists who create huge building-size murals are responsible for the design of the painting itself, but usually work with a team of artist to get up on the ladders and help apply the image to the building. The way I use LLMs feels like that to me: I'm designing the software to quite a fine level, then having the LLMs help out with some of the typing of the code: https://simonwillison.net/2025/Mar/11/using-llms-for-code/#tell-them-exactly-what-to-do https://simonwillison.net/2025/Mar/11/using-llms-for-code/#t...
mikethemerry 2y ago
There were seamstresses who enjoyed sewing prior to the industrial revolution, and continued doing so afterwards. We still have people with those skills now, but it's often in very different contexts. But the ability to create a completely new garment industry was possible because of the scale that was then possible. Similarly for most artesanal crafts. The industry will change drastically, but you can still enjoy your individual pleasures. And there will be value in unique, one-off and very different pieces that only an artesan can create (though there will now be a vast number of "unique" screen printed tees on the market as well)

deadbabe 2y ago

I don’t enjoy writing unit tests but fortunately this is one task LLMs seem to be very good at and isn’t high stakes, they can exhaustively create test cases for all kinds of conditions, and can torture test your code without mercy. This is the only true improvement LLMs have made to my enjoyment.

rileymichael 2y ago
except they are not good at it. the unit tests you'll have written will be filled with (slow) mocks with tautological assertions, create no reusable test fixtures, etc.
- chamomeal 2y ago
  Sounds just like human-written test suites lol
  - rileymichael 2y ago
    of course — that’s what they’re trained on after all. most treat tests as a burden / afterthought, propagating the same issues from codebase to codebase, never improving. i wouldn’t consider those good either.
layer8 2y ago
Saying that writing unit tests isn’t high stakes is a dubious statement. The very purpose of unit tests is to make sure that programming errors are caught that may very well be high stakes.
- falcor84 2y ago
  However high the stakes are, a bug in test code is not as much of an issue as a bug in the production code.
  - layer8 2y ago
    It is as much of an issue if it prevents a bug in production code from being detected before it occurs in production. Which is the very purpose of unit tests.
  - optimalsolver 2y ago
    What? Bugs in the test code are what lead to bugs in production code.
    - falcor84 2y ago
      That is exactly it. A bug in test code may or may not lead to a bug in production code, while a bug in production code IS a bug in production code

stephantul 2y ago

This so much. I love coding. I might be the person that still paints stuff by hand long after image generation has made actual paintings superfluous, but it is what it is.

simonw 2y ago
One analogy that works for me is to consider mural painting. Artists who create huge building-size murals are responsible for the design of the painting itself, but usually work with a team of artist to get up on the ladders and help apply the image to the building. The way I use LLMs feels like that to me: I'm designing the software to quite a fine level, then having the LLMs help out with some of the typing of the code: https://simonwillison.net/2025/Mar/11/using-llms-for-code/#tell-them-exactly-what-to-do https://simonwillison.net/2025/Mar/11/using-llms-for-code/#t...

mikethemerry 2y ago

There were seamstresses who enjoyed sewing prior to the industrial revolution, and continued doing so afterwards. We still have people with those skills now, but it's often in very different contexts. But the ability to create a completely new garment industry was possible because of the scale that was then possible. Similarly for most artesanal crafts. The industry will change drastically, but you can still enjoy your individual pleasures. And there will be value in unique, one-off and very different pieces that only an artesan can create (though there will now be a vast number of "unique" screen printed tees on the market as well)