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‘Bloody Saturday’ at Voice of America and other U.S.-funded networks
- hermitcrab 2y agoThe USA appears to be destroying much of the 'soft power' that it spent decades building. And it cost a tiny amount compared to the 'hard power' of the military. As an outsider, it seems very short sighted. The BBC is also cutting jobs in the BBC World Service, which seems similarly short sighted. But I don't think the cuts are as far reaching as the US ones: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpql1vvdn58o https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpql1vvdn58o
- readthenotes1 2y agoI'm interested in what you thought of recent Voice of America broadcasts.
- chomp 2y agoIt sounds like you’re not actually interested, and would like to make a point instead.
- readthenotes1 2y agoI am sorry it sounds that way to you. To the best of my recollection I have never heard a voice of America broadcast and have no idea what it's doing after the Soviet Union fell. So I was asking someone who is supporting it what hen thought about the recent broadcast. Surely, if you support something, you have some familiarity with it?
- xist 2y ago> Surely, if you support something, you have some familiarity with it? You'd really hope that's the same logic used when someone doesn't support something too. Rarely are people's opinions that well informed unfortunately.
- throwaway89201 2y agoPlease be better than just stating a low-effort question. Are you familiar with Voice of America? Can you answer your own question? I'm not familiar with it myself, but I'm from the EU. I only know that it played an effort in the cold war propaganda effort with the (then) Munich-based Radio Free Europe / Radio Liberty.
- readthenotes1 2y agoWhat should I do better than ask a low effort question that should require a low effort but high value response? My supposition is that the person I was responding to has not heard of voice of America broadcast recently--in spite of supporting it-- but I was hoping to be proven wrong. It sounds like you yourself are not someone who values voice of America enough to tune in. I'm not either. I have no idea what sort of "soft power" a radio broadcast yields these days and for whom it yields it. It seems like it is more the cavalry ca. 1950
- marban 2y agoI do some consulting work for PSM in Europe, and there are cost-cutting measures across the board, but nowhere near as earth-shattering as in the US.
- grandempire 2y agoWhat characteristics distinguish “soft power” from propaganda and why is it good? Is it just good in a Niestczhean kind of way in that serves American interests?
- cassepipe 2y agoHave you ever tried to be nice to people instead of threatening them to get what you want ? That's the idea
- coldtea 2y agoDoesn't work if what you want is against their interests. Hence "soft power" and, if that fails, "bombing for democracy".
- fn-mote 2y ago> Doesn't work if what you want is against their interests. There’s a world of difference between “against my interest” and “worth my effort”. Soft power could help in that gap. I’m not actually sure we disagree - this is more of an elaboration.
- jmye 2y agoSoft power is also building roads and hospitals in Africa (see: China) because you want the country to deal with you first (because they’ve you as a friend, even if you both know it’s a transactional relationship) when they go to sell resources they have. It’s not just trying to strong arm people into doing things they don’t want to do. You have a deeply antagonistic view of all of this. Is there a reason? Do you think that the EU doesn’t employ soft power? That China doesn’t? Do you seriously see no difference between, for instance, seeing value in large numbers of people speaking some English and having a positive view of your country, and whatever “bombing for democracy” is supposed to represent?
- reaperducer 2y agoWhy try to divert the discussion into an off topic quagmire?
- pjc50 2y agoVOA is the old world propaganda network. Twitter/Facebook are the new ones. Direct mirror image of TikTok effects.
- rstuart4133 2y ago> VOA is the old world propaganda network. True. But, most of the places VOA projects into are in the "old world". How many people in North Korea do you think login to Facebook? For that matter, how many people in the new world still login to twitter? And while I'm firmly in the new world, I still listen to the radio most days. I suspect the "afternoon drive slot" will belong to radio for a long while yet.
- hoseyor 2y agoWhat I find the most interesting is that to me at least it seems like there has been some strange inversion over the course of my adult life, where the same people that used to lament things like the COA VOA propaganda, warfare, instigating and stoking and orchestrating coups, subverting democratic elections, etc. are exactly the ones doing and supporting all those things they used to decry. I get the sense that I’ve just remained consistent in my views, but it still does not expiration things like how the same “liberals” who decried the invasion and corruption of Iraq, cheer on and demand limitless warfare and corrupted spending today on the likes of the Ukraine, while the “conservatives” want to stop wars and limit profligate spending and corruption. It’s upside down world, and terrifying to witness how quickly people can be manipulated to take directly contradictory positions.
- krapp 2y agoYou're confusing "liberal" with "leftist," I suspect intentionally. Liberals supported the Iraq war. And the conservatives don't want to stop wars, they're literally the pro-war, pro military industrial complex party, and nothing they're doing is actually limiting profligate spending or corruption. Nice bit of propaganda and misidrection though. I can tell you worked hard on it.
- symbolicAGI 2y agoIn the USA, Republicans build the military and Democrats wield it.
- ckemere 2y agoI don’t think this in quite fair. Since the time of Reagan, I think that liberals have consistently upheld the possibility of non-military government service being of value in contrast to the Reagan-ite generalization that only military service was generally honorable. (E.g., VOA, diplomatic service, DOJ)
- 01100011 2y agoThis. I was surprised to see the outrage over USAID, which up until now I had considered an arm of the CIA. Of course you are downvoted, because right now the progressive thing is to support these institutions and not question them. But this attitude used to be the domain of the left and so was seen differently. Now that the right is saying it, we have to downvote you. Edit: Some pre-2025 links: https://foreignpolicy.com/2014/04/03/cuban-twitter-and-other-times-usaid-pretended-to-be-an-intelligence-agency/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2014/04/03/cuban-twitter-and-other... https://search.library.wisc.edu/digital/AA2RFE4CPSKBZ78P https://search.library.wisc.edu/digital/AA2RFE4CPSKBZ78P https://mronline.org/2008/09/23/usaid-key-weapon-in-dirty-war-on-latin-america/ https://mronline.org/2008/09/23/usaid-key-weapon-in-dirty-wa... (from a socialist magazine, so take w/ a grain of salt) https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2004/11/coup-connection/ https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2004/11/coup-connection... Please do not be blinded by your well deserved distaste for trump. People calling for the ending of USAID are not all MAGA.
- kennysoona 2y ago> The USA appears to be destroying much of the 'soft power' that it spent decades building. And it cost a tiny amount compared to the 'hard power' of the military. As an outsider, it seems very short sighted. Republicans think this is a good thing because they think the US can rule the world through hard power alone. It's such a depressing monumental mistake.
- ben_w 2y ago> Republicans think this is a good thing because they think the US can rule the world through hard power alone. It's such a depressing monumental mistake. Given the way they talk about everyone else's media/free speech rules and limitations, I think they're projecting what works for their own domestic support base onto countries that consider the Democrat party to be worryingly right wing.
- tempodox 2y agoIt's a common mistake for U.S.-ians to think the rest of the world works exactly like their banana republic.
- lkrubner 2y agoHere in the USA we currently have a regime that is focused on destroying all forms of American power: they are destroying our economic power, they are destroying our cultural power, they are destroying our military power. They are destroying the idea called "America." They have gone to war against each of our traditions and values. Some critics ascribe this to rational motives, such critics claim that the goal here is to make Trump wealthier, or to make Elon Musk wealthier, or to make all rich people wealthier. But I think it is a form of psychological denial to want to believe that Trump or Musk have rational motivations. It is more accurate to see this as an expression of the primitive impulses that rule them. There is no rational calculation in what they do, only rage, and a desire to destroy. Fighting against them is honorable, virtuous, and moral.
- crooked-v 2y agoI think there's an easy answer for Elon's motivation in particular: he wants to damage the US as revenge for ending South African apartheid (https://www.flyingpenguin.com/?p=65793 https://www.flyingpenguin.com/?p=65793).
- snovv_crash 2y agoDon't attribute to malice that which can be attributed to incompetence.
- tigerlily 2y agoWhen you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.
- disqard 2y agoYup, it looks like a Russian stooge has been installed in the White House.
- salawat 2y agoUnrepentant incompetence, especially in the presence of a counter/restoring force being actively ignored is indistinguishable from malice. The U.S. is not unanimous in this dismantling effort, great controversy has been and continues to be brewed, which to any competent leader should signal a slower, more cautious approach. We see no such thing. Hanlon's razor does not apply in such a circumstance. It only serves to ease the process of bloodletting by acting as a thought terminating cliche.
- pessimizer 2y agoAwful ancient Cold War propaganda outlets that were once illegal to broadcast into the United States, welcome to the resistance. This is the willful destruction of independent journalistic outlets that are fully funded by the US government and broadcast primarily to countries whose governments the US has expressed an open desire to overthrow.
- LeanderK 2y agoAs someone from europe, I am baffled by the ability to just fire everyone on the spot. Are there no job-protections for federal employees? This makes agencies really dependent on the political climate, right? Can he really just fire everyone? Isn't there even a 3 months notice or something? A separate, connected thought is that I wonder why you would choose being a federal employee then. Here, the government promises job security but it usually means less pay and slower processes compared to industry. If you don't have job security, is then the government forced to be more competitive with industry positions in pay/processes?
- leptons 2y agoRepublicans want to privatize everything. They want to make their rich friends richer by doing this. It's going to be a disaster for the average citizen.
- crooked-v 2y agoThere are protections, but not for 'probationary' employees (anyone who's been hired or transferred within the past X months). As for the rest, they're not 'being fired', they're 'being placed on administrative leave', which is a paper-thin excuse but one that will have to wind its way through the court system like all the other bullshit the administration is pulling.
- LeanderK 2y agoah ok, thanks for the clarification! But there shouldn't be too many probationary employees, right? So what's administrate leave exactly? Just relieved from your responsibilities? I guess you still get paid.
- crooked-v 2y agoIn theory, it should come with still being paid (https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/leave-administration/fact-sheets/administrative-leave/ https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/leave-ad...) but I'm sure the current administration will find ways to conveniently lose the checks in the mail.
- brickfaced 2y agoStrikes me as odd how one flavor of commenters who've long called for the "end of the American Empire," reductions in our "overseas military imperialism," and closure of the VoA "propaganda outlet" now stand by the institutions of said Empire to the death.
- dlcarrier 2y agoEither party will argue against what the other is doing, while they do it, but it's what happens as the parties swap leadership that makes it clear what the party actually dislikes. They don't discontinue everything the other party implemented, even when it's easy to do so, and that's the true indicator that the party is okay with something, regardless of the partisan complaints made when it was initially implemented.
- Aloisius 2y agoI don't think so. What's described isn't one party attacking another for positions they supposedly support. Neither of the mainstream parties supported the "end of the American Empire" - that's something you really only heard from paleo-socialists, anarchists and contrarians regurgitating Cold War Soviet propaganda.
- mike_d 2y agoI don't hold that view point, but if even the critics can see this as something evil, that should tell you something. You can not like your neighbors partying and playing music until 3 AM, but also have the moral compass to know that setting fire to their house is not the solution.
- 01100011 2y agoIt's sad that otherwise reasonable folks either aren't aware or are too embarrassed to acknowledge their political biases. But here we are. Trump is bad(and hey, he mostly is), so now we're justified in lying in any way shape or form that it takes to inflict some harm on his ideas, actions or person. The first casualty of someone like trump is our own character. We can't admit anything he does has positive benefits because to do so would be to give an inch to literal hitler. If you went back 20 years and asked your average liberal activist they'd be all in favor of rolling back American "imperial actions and organizations" like USAID(long suspected to work closely with the CIA since at least the 60s). But here we are, debasing ourselves for politics' sake.
- regularization 2y agoTrump is not doing things that different than Biden in foreign policy - how much more damage can Trump do the Palestinians in Gaza that Biden didn't do? Trump is just more honest, and this embarrasses the professional-managerial liberals who support US imperialism. He's just saying what's happening as opposed to some nonsense about how he is neutral between Palestinians and Israelis while Biden was helping slaughtering Palestinians, Yemen, Syrians, Lebanese etc. while talking about peace. No need for propaganda outfits when you're being honest. The lies of upper middle class white liberal imperialists have been exposed - how the US treats Palestinians hasn't changed at all. Plus some minor things - Trump is more anti-China, which is why he's winding down the Russia thing. From a geopolitical realist standpoint it makes more sense - maybe not to neocons.
- bagels 2y agoRemind me which countries Biden threatened to annex? I'm drawing a blank on that.
- freeone3000 2y agoBiden had the same attitudes towards enemies like Palestine and unaligned powers in the Middle East and Africa, where the main issue is inaction. Trump is starting trade wars with close economic allies, threatening to annex territory from other NATO members, and closing down century-old institutions overnight. There is a difference between seeing Israel killing Palestinians and doing nothing, and actually threatening overt action against what were once allies.
- krapp 2y agoBiden didn't do nothing. He stated firm support for Israel, to the point of declaring himself a Zionist, he sent billions of dollars in arms and aid to Israel, and the US under his leadership vetoed numerous UN resolutions calling for a ceasefire, as well as witheld funding to Palestinian relief organizations. He got the nickname "Genocide Joe" because of how enthusiastic he almost seemed to be about it. Utter disregard and contempt for Palestinian lives is one area where very little daylight exists between Biden and Trump. Even Kamala Harris didn't deviate from that norm.
- seydor 2y agoIt's difficult to understand the american strategy here , and even whether there is one. A state must have a strategy, it cannot be ran like a corporate, or else someone else with a strategy will become more successful. Imagine if the roman empire went "on holiday" sometime around 100AD and just declared "Rome first!" but withdrew from the known world and let the chips fall where they may. "America first" is not some revelatory slogan, america was already first, but if it wants to be alone , that's their prerogative. But then the rest of the world is not ready to deglobalize nor does it want to. The great powers of the 19th century are no longer, so by necessity the world will have to remain globalized with an increasingly closed off america. This would be a loss for the USA - why would a scientist go to work in america if her work might eventually be subject to restrictions of collaboration. On the other hand, the US launched an attack against the Houthi terrorists, which is a clear sign that the US is interested to maintain the world's essential trade and oil routes. So maybe america is not alone yet.
- monetus 2y agoThe strategy is, "this will make trump feel good today." Trump is terminally online, or in front of a tv, never ending his media diet while simultaneously absorbing no real information about the world. There is no strategy outside of that. They are a cult and sycophants lashing out at anything they enjoy being belligerent towards. In their minds, the abandonment of soft power is being strong by just throwing away all the mamsy pansy stuff "they" wanted. Edit: sorry for the tone; I'm a bit perturbed.
- monetus 2y agoAlso, I know it is namby-pamby, but that hasn't been what I've heard people say for a while now.
- DiogenesKynikos 2y ago> Imagine if the roman empire went "on holiday" sometime around 100AD and just declared "Rome first!" but withdrew from the known world and let the chips fall where they may. Actually, the ongoing collapse of the American governmental systems makes the collapse of various ancient civilizations seem less puzzling to me. The US is at a point where the president is deliberately destroying his own government bureaucracy, ignoring the courts, and probably bringing about the end of constitutional rule. Meanwhile, Congress is just sitting back and watching it happen. Trump's wealthy backers support all this because they don't want to pay taxes or follow regulations, and Trump's voters are deeply angry and willing to lash out at whoever Trump tells them is to blame. You can't pay your mortgage because: "the EPA exists," "all our money is being given to foreign aid," "immigrants stole your job," etc. It almost makes me think that maybe the Late Bronze Age Collapse occurred for internal social and political reasons that are impossible to piece together 3000 years later. 3000 years from now, will anyone be able to explain why the US political system imploded in the 2020s?
- thescriptkiddie 2y agoit's very funny that these guys don't seem to understand anymore that programs like VoA are their thing. they think they're "owning the left" by cutting the budget for right-wing propaganda.
- horns4lyfe 2y agoThey’re cutting the budget for neocon power. Trump et al are not neocons, that’s been the democrats bag since Obama took it over
- monetus 2y agoAs music played where once there was news, how many former soviets were listening and thought, "ah, I remember this."