4 ms·

US deports Venezuelans despite court order

75 points by j_maffe 2y ago

tim333 2y ago
Not just deports but sends them to a supermax prison in El Salvador without any trial. Not much innocent till proven guilty going on. And probably some of the people they round up will be innocent.
duxup 2y ago
Law doesn’t matter with this administration. SCOTUS decided the president was exempt from the law and the consequences are obvious…
- toggaf 2y ago
  [dead]
- sarcasmatwork 2y ago
  Do you remember when Joe defied the supreme court for student loans? https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/white-house/2932356/how-biden-defied-supreme-court-to-cancel-144-billion-in-student-loans/ https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/white-house/2932356/...
  - duxup 2y ago
    For some reason I'm a lot less worried about that.
    - kccoder 2y ago
      Good, because it didn't happen!
  - unsnap_biceps 2y ago
    He didn't ignore it, he tried to achieve the same outcome via a different method. That's very different then just ignoring the order entirely.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
- DLA 2y ago
  That is NOT what the SCOTUS decision said at all. This is a hysterical comment that’s not cool on HN. Here’s the ruling which talks about what Presidential actions carry executive immunity and when they do not (Syllabus (2), when authority is shared by Congress). https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23-939_e2pg.pdf https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23-939_e2pg.pdf
  - duxup 2y ago
    They have expanded it to the point the point of the lines they drew are meaningless.
ckemere 2y ago
An interesting question is if/when there will be big protests. Ignoring a judge is a breach of constitutional order, and if people don’t speak up for Venezuelan “gang members”, it becomes normalized, and quickly can escalate. I think we’ve all been waiting to see how long it would take to get here (if ever). Now what next???
- barbazoo 2y ago
  People are too economically enslaved to mass protest.
  - duxup 2y ago
    People do protest…
    - j_maffe 2y ago
      Could people do a strike that would cripple key industries or cause massive disruption to the government?
      - duxup 2y ago
        Would it matter to an administration that has no problems with government being crippled? Industries who are not in power?
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
    - wahnfrieden 2y ago
      For a day or so
      - barbazoo 2y ago
        If it fits in the schedule of two jobs, kids, etc
    - 2y ago
apical_dendrite 2y ago
I encourage you to read the government's appeal to the DC Circuit Court. It is terrifying. https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69742127/01208720432/jg https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69742127/01208720432/jg... The government is saying that it can declare that transnational crime is an "invasion" under the Alien Enemies Act, and that the courts cannot review this decision. Therefore, they can arrest, deport, or transfer to a prison in a third country, any non-citizen and the courts have no power to intervene or review the decision. Transnational crime will always exist, and it is present in many countries. So if you're a citizen of Italy and a lawful permanent resident of the US, they can arrest you, accuse you of being in the mafia, and send you to a prison in El Salvador, and you will have no legal recourse. I don't even think they would need that fig leaf since the courts would have no power to review their actions.
- readthenotes1 2y ago
  That's the law. Perhaps we shouldn't give the president, or any one person, that much authority? (When was the last declared war in the USA??)
  - apical_dendrite 2y ago
    The law is pretty clearly about a literal invasion or military incursion, not a metaphorical "invasion". If the Alien Enemies Act was designed for transnational crime, then it would not be an emergency law - it could be invoked at any time for a whole host of countries.
  - unsnap_biceps 2y ago
    The law doesn't allow deporting to a different country to jail them, which is happening here. I'd be much less concerned if they were going back to Venezuela, however, they're going to a special prison in El Salvador that we pay for, but isn't under our legal system. I would also say that I was, am still are, totally against Gitmo, as that was illegal as well, but less illegal, as we ran the facility.
DesiLurker 2y ago
we are going to find how just how many things in current system run on honor basis. this administration will try to push past all limits. problem is it will be a race to bottom going forwards.
jauntywundrkind 2y ago
I loved this "Five Questions About Trump's Alien Enemy Act Proclamation", which runs through a lot of the legal questions at stake (based on existing case law). (Whether or not this is a legal government is not covered.) https://www.stevevladeck.com/p/132-five-questions-about-trumps-alien https://www.stevevladeck.com/p/132-five-questions-about-trum...
Freedom2 2y ago
It's curious that a lot of Venezuelans campaigned for Trump and this is the outcome at the end. I doubt anyone could have seen this coming, for sure.
- bingaweek 2y ago
  Do citizen Venezuelans want gang members here just because they share the same homeland?
- hagbard_c 2y ago
  Do you think Venezuelans who campaigned for Trump/the Republicans want members of a violent prison gang to remain in the country they call their new home, given their nationality and with that themselves a bad name? They'll be pleased to see Trump make good on his promises just like most people are pleased to see illegal gang bangers removed from the country.
  - Crazy-Pills-305 2y ago
    If these two hundred and something folks were guilty of being part of a transnational crime organization I'll be happy to see them pay their time, but so far I only know their crime was to be brown and Latino in the wrong place at the wrong time. What's been discussed here is the need for due process and how this makes anyone vulnerable, because now by default everyone can be guilty without recourse. Tomorrow someone might say you're part of "antifa" and whatever that word means and boom, your rights are vulnerable and your integrity at risk.
  - archagon 2y ago
    Until their innocent kid with tattoos gets kidnapped to El Salvador or Guantanamo.
  - croisillon 2y ago
    funny how the guy requesting a no politic rule * ends up commenting mainly under those * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43122960 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43122960
tmpz22 2y ago
American judicial jurisprudence is paramount to American business interests and informed discourse is vital to anyone wishing to conduct a successful enterprise. That this is flagged is concerning... as it amounts to saying court decisions, compliance, and enforcement, are irrelevant to this forum. As we saw on the thread yesterday by a YC immigration lawyer there is a real immediate impact to his community and it should be discussed not banned.
- cudgy 2y ago
  The “discussion” seems one-sided and any dissent is downvoted to oblivion. Maybe that is why these are flagged by people. They are not discussions.
xnx 2y ago
Also "Doctor and Professor Is Deported to Lebanon Despite a Judge’s Order" https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/16/us/brown-university-rasha-alawieh-professor-deported.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/16/us/brown-university-rasha...

75 points by j_maffe 2y ago

Not just deports but sends them to a supermax prison in El Salvador without any trial. Not much innocent till proven guilty going on. And probably some of the people they round up will be innocent.

duxup 2y ago

Law doesn’t matter with this administration. SCOTUS decided the president was exempt from the law and the consequences are obvious…

toggaf 2y ago
[dead]
sarcasmatwork 2y ago
Do you remember when Joe defied the supreme court for student loans? https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/white-house/2932356/how-biden-defied-supreme-court-to-cancel-144-billion-in-student-loans/ https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/white-house/2932356/...
- duxup 2y ago
  For some reason I'm a lot less worried about that.
  - kccoder 2y ago
    Good, because it didn't happen!
- unsnap_biceps 2y ago
  He didn't ignore it, he tried to achieve the same outcome via a different method. That's very different then just ignoring the order entirely.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
DLA 2y ago
That is NOT what the SCOTUS decision said at all. This is a hysterical comment that’s not cool on HN. Here’s the ruling which talks about what Presidential actions carry executive immunity and when they do not (Syllabus (2), when authority is shared by Congress). https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23-939_e2pg.pdf https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23-939_e2pg.pdf
- duxup 2y ago
  They have expanded it to the point the point of the lines they drew are meaningless.

ckemere 2y ago

An interesting question is if/when there will be big protests. Ignoring a judge is a breach of constitutional order, and if people don’t speak up for Venezuelan “gang members”, it becomes normalized, and quickly can escalate. I think we’ve all been waiting to see how long it would take to get here (if ever). Now what next???

barbazoo 2y ago
People are too economically enslaved to mass protest.
- duxup 2y ago
  People do protest…
  - j_maffe 2y ago
    Could people do a strike that would cripple key industries or cause massive disruption to the government?
    - duxup 2y ago
      Would it matter to an administration that has no problems with government being crippled? Industries who are not in power?
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - wahnfrieden 2y ago
    For a day or so
    - barbazoo 2y ago
      If it fits in the schedule of two jobs, kids, etc
  - 2y ago

apical_dendrite 2y ago

I encourage you to read the government's appeal to the DC Circuit Court. It is terrifying. https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69742127/01208720432/jg https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69742127/01208720432/jg... The government is saying that it can declare that transnational crime is an "invasion" under the Alien Enemies Act, and that the courts cannot review this decision. Therefore, they can arrest, deport, or transfer to a prison in a third country, any non-citizen and the courts have no power to intervene or review the decision. Transnational crime will always exist, and it is present in many countries. So if you're a citizen of Italy and a lawful permanent resident of the US, they can arrest you, accuse you of being in the mafia, and send you to a prison in El Salvador, and you will have no legal recourse. I don't even think they would need that fig leaf since the courts would have no power to review their actions.

readthenotes1 2y ago
That's the law. Perhaps we shouldn't give the president, or any one person, that much authority? (When was the last declared war in the USA??)
- apical_dendrite 2y ago
  The law is pretty clearly about a literal invasion or military incursion, not a metaphorical "invasion". If the Alien Enemies Act was designed for transnational crime, then it would not be an emergency law - it could be invoked at any time for a whole host of countries.
- unsnap_biceps 2y ago
  The law doesn't allow deporting to a different country to jail them, which is happening here. I'd be much less concerned if they were going back to Venezuela, however, they're going to a special prison in El Salvador that we pay for, but isn't under our legal system. I would also say that I was, am still are, totally against Gitmo, as that was illegal as well, but less illegal, as we ran the facility.

DesiLurker 2y ago

we are going to find how just how many things in current system run on honor basis. this administration will try to push past all limits. problem is it will be a race to bottom going forwards.

jauntywundrkind 2y ago

I loved this "Five Questions About Trump's Alien Enemy Act Proclamation", which runs through a lot of the legal questions at stake (based on existing case law). (Whether or not this is a legal government is not covered.) https://www.stevevladeck.com/p/132-five-questions-about-trumps-alien https://www.stevevladeck.com/p/132-five-questions-about-trum...

Freedom2 2y ago

It's curious that a lot of Venezuelans campaigned for Trump and this is the outcome at the end. I doubt anyone could have seen this coming, for sure.

bingaweek 2y ago
Do citizen Venezuelans want gang members here just because they share the same homeland?
hagbard_c 2y ago
Do you think Venezuelans who campaigned for Trump/the Republicans want members of a violent prison gang to remain in the country they call their new home, given their nationality and with that themselves a bad name? They'll be pleased to see Trump make good on his promises just like most people are pleased to see illegal gang bangers removed from the country.
- Crazy-Pills-305 2y ago
  If these two hundred and something folks were guilty of being part of a transnational crime organization I'll be happy to see them pay their time, but so far I only know their crime was to be brown and Latino in the wrong place at the wrong time. What's been discussed here is the need for due process and how this makes anyone vulnerable, because now by default everyone can be guilty without recourse. Tomorrow someone might say you're part of "antifa" and whatever that word means and boom, your rights are vulnerable and your integrity at risk.
- archagon 2y ago
  Until their innocent kid with tattoos gets kidnapped to El Salvador or Guantanamo.
- croisillon 2y ago
  funny how the guy requesting a no politic rule * ends up commenting mainly under those * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43122960 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43122960

tmpz22 2y ago

American judicial jurisprudence is paramount to American business interests and informed discourse is vital to anyone wishing to conduct a successful enterprise. That this is flagged is concerning... as it amounts to saying court decisions, compliance, and enforcement, are irrelevant to this forum. As we saw on the thread yesterday by a YC immigration lawyer there is a real immediate impact to his community and it should be discussed not banned.

cudgy 2y ago
The “discussion” seems one-sided and any dissent is downvoted to oblivion. Maybe that is why these are flagged by people. They are not discussions.

xnx 2y ago

Also "Doctor and Professor Is Deported to Lebanon Despite a Judge’s Order" https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/16/us/brown-university-rasha-alawieh-professor-deported.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/16/us/brown-university-rasha...