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> "a female that is less aggressive will mate with males who can't succeed at mating with other females" That premise is the fundamental point that your argume

> "a female that is less aggressive will mate with males who can't succeed at mating with other females" That premise is the fundamental point that your argument hinges on and I see no reason to just assume it would be true, and can create plenty of plausible arguments (that I think are fairly self evident) for why it would be untrue.

lolinder 2y ago
Then please do! I'm definitely open for discussion if you care to offer any.
- somenameforme 2y ago
  The goal of the male spider is to pass on his genes as much as possible. Mates who don't kill him are rather more preferable than ones that do!
  - lolinder 2y ago
    But that is true regardless of whether a male is fit enough to survive a cannibalistic female, which means that pacifist females do not have an advantage in natural selection: As long as there are enough males in circulation that can succeed in fertilizing before being eaten, then there's no pressure on females to drop the cannibalistic strategy. Any male that cannot win the cannibalism game can only fertilize pacifist females, but a male that can win the cannibalism game has genes that can be passed on to both cannibalistic and pacifist females. So the genes of cannibalistic females have broader reach within a species that has already gotten to majority-cannibalistic because her male offspring can fertilize both types of female rather than just one type. Again, to GP's point, just because non-cannibalism would be more beneficial to the species as a whole doesn't mean that evolutionary pressure on individual genetic lines will select away from it. The individual line is often better off being selfish and selecting the strategy that gives them the broadest possible range of propagation (hence Richard Dawkins' title, The Selfish Gene), which in this case is cannibalism.
  - _cs2017_ 2y ago
    They wouldn't have any way of knowing this before choosing the female. I suppose the can develop a more advanced social structure with prenups, courts, and police, but then we're talking about millions of years.

lolinder 2y ago

Then please do! I'm definitely open for discussion if you care to offer any.

somenameforme 2y ago
The goal of the male spider is to pass on his genes as much as possible. Mates who don't kill him are rather more preferable than ones that do!
- lolinder 2y ago
  But that is true regardless of whether a male is fit enough to survive a cannibalistic female, which means that pacifist females do not have an advantage in natural selection: As long as there are enough males in circulation that can succeed in fertilizing before being eaten, then there's no pressure on females to drop the cannibalistic strategy. Any male that cannot win the cannibalism game can only fertilize pacifist females, but a male that can win the cannibalism game has genes that can be passed on to both cannibalistic and pacifist females. So the genes of cannibalistic females have broader reach within a species that has already gotten to majority-cannibalistic because her male offspring can fertilize both types of female rather than just one type. Again, to GP's point, just because non-cannibalism would be more beneficial to the species as a whole doesn't mean that evolutionary pressure on individual genetic lines will select away from it. The individual line is often better off being selfish and selecting the strategy that gives them the broadest possible range of propagation (hence Richard Dawkins' title, The Selfish Gene), which in this case is cannibalism.
- _cs2017_ 2y ago
  They wouldn't have any way of knowing this before choosing the female. I suppose the can develop a more advanced social structure with prenups, courts, and police, but then we're talking about millions of years.