5 ms·

The Naked and the TED

88 points by tijs 14y ago

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
alpine 14y ago
It might seem odd that Parag Khanna would turn his attention to the world of technology. He established his reputation as a wannabe geopolitical theorist, something of a modern-day Kissinger, only wired and cool I don't find it strange. Having followed TED for years I have noticed the political under current become more obvious over time. The technocratic political elite like having a forum to promote their agenda, no surprise there really.
DanielBMarkham 14y ago
...Today TED is an insatiable kingpin of international meme laundering... I liked this article a lot, even though I don't have as much experience with the TED community as the author does. Applying a acerbic wit and cynical eye to what we do as technical people is sorely needed. And the author has a point: at some point the language gets so conceptual and fuzzy that it becomes more of a performance than a knowledge-sharing exercise. It's like a carnival for the wannabe Bill Gates of the world. For a couple of years I've been fascinated with the idea that as intelligent people many of us are drawn to activities and consumption that makes us look more intelligent, whether or not we actually learn anything of value from them or not. So we listen to the right music, have the right opinions, and banter on about the right topics in the right way, all the while doing more than just a little social posturing and signalling. Vast segments of intelligentsia are little more than echo chamber. We are giving up independent analysis for pre-digested bits of feel-good junk food. Good to see that argument gaining more traction. Healthy communities require introspection and honest conversations.
- alpine 14y ago
  I suppose adhering to the echo chamber's rhetoric is where the danger lies. A savvy politician with an ear for techno babble and an agenda detrimental to the hungry listener could make a lot of headway turning his plan into concrete effects before anyone realises what is going on.
- hdivider 14y ago
  "For a couple of years I've been fascinated with the idea that as intelligent people many of us are drawn to activities and consumption that makes us look more intelligent, whether or not we actually learn anything of value from them or not." This is a very interesting thought. I suppose to some extent that effect is due to there being fewer checks of your ability once you reach a high level of competence in something, simply because there are fewer people who have the ability to do that. One way to mitigate that could be to learn entirely new things that you don't think you have an 'aptitude' for. When you start something really new to you, and later begin to publish stuff made with those new skills, there's a huge number of people who will analyse your work critically.
- 7952 14y ago
  To me TED feels a bit like going to church, just replacing the Bible with technology in a collective experience.
- tkahn6 14y ago
  > the idea that as intelligent people many of us are drawn to activities and consumption that makes us look more intelligent Relevant essay: http://lesswrong.com/lw/2pv/intellectual_hipsters_and_metacontrarianism/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/2pv/intellectual_hipsters_and_metaco...
delinka 14y ago
"takedown"? I don't think it means what you think it means. As for the article, I kept wanting to nod off. I guess it's just not my style.
- mistercow 14y ago
  >"takedown"? I don't think it means what you think it means. Take a gander here: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/takedown http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/takedown I see three definitions, two literal and one figurative that apply here: >6. Informal . the act of being humbled. >7. Wrestling . a move or series of maneuvers that succeeds in bringing a standing opponent down onto the mat. >2. a crushing remark [syn: put-down]
kingkawn 14y ago
The herd of independent minds.
tadhgk 14y ago
Sour sour sour grapes. The thing about TED is, wild-eyed though it may be, it's not a political agenda. It's (trying to be) beyond that, about technology and science and understanding, and while the result is often pretty technocratic it is actually often reflecting the benefits of self-organisation through tech. Stuff like Wikipedia, for example, is perfect TED-fodder because it shows demonstrable ways of doing things better. People who do not understand that idea (of which they are many) criticise it on their own terms, and so miss the point. If you are used to seeing life through a political lens (as we might hazard the New Republic does) then TED looks like an agenda by a different name. However that's like religious people insisting that atheists must believe in something, even if that's belief in an idea. It is outside their framework of understanding to consider a person who does not hold any kind of belief. So, personally (and I think the popularity of TED and RSA etc reflect this) this whole article reads like some venting from someone who doesn't really understand the concept, and so can only think of it in terms of politics. These Teddites must have a political view of some kind, right? No. It's trans-political because it's about applied informational learning to solve problems. Politics itself being one of those problems.
- alpine 14y ago
  I disagree strongly with most of the points you make. I don't think this is a case of sour grapes... and if it is, so what? Because the argument made is entirely reasonable and well done. Whether you agree or not, it is an important view point that has to be aired more often. I personally agree with the author's premise and I think your view that TED doesn't have a political agenda is naive in the extreme.
  - tadhgk 14y ago
    I think the argument is neither reasonably made nor well done. It reads like a laundry list of gripes the author has, like "oh yeah, and one more thing, and look at this word, and what a fool this guy is, and one more, and and and" but with some nice verbage. What he doesn't get to the heart of is, aside from the fact that the book may not be very good (which I can easily accept), why the central systems-and-data-driven plank that comprises much of TED-esque thinking is bad. To take one example, he seems to find the whole notion of a hybrid age, or the singularity, as dangerous technocratic political thinking, something to be stamped out. Whereas look at the actual smart-device search-engine semantic-social world we're creeping toward and the post-political person understands that those are just inevitable outcomes. It's not whether the singularity might happen (or could be prevented) but when, and so the forward-looking thinking person should be trying to figure out the best uses of that. He's also missed the pointed examples of Signapore and China by a country mile, mistaking older ideological associations (which, again, every forward-thinking person understands need to be resolved) for the efficiency argument. The reviewer's point is that efficiency leads to brutality, which is a very old-school political idea, but the TED-esque view generally looks for efficiency to promote/empower humanity. Again, like Wikipedia, both more efficient and much better (but let's instead get distracted by talking about Jimmy Wales and how he named his children). So, you know, like that. Morozov seems to want to make a middle-20th century argument about early 21st-century ideas, and it shows. He writes passably well (though this review could have been cut in half with no loss imo), but the core conceit (this TED stuff is techno-politics) is just fundamentally wrong.
Tloewald 14y ago
The author almost but not quite describes "the singularity" as a kind of secular pseudo-intellectual rapture. Nailed it.
- _delirium 14y ago
  That's an idea that does get thrown around fairly explicitly now and then: https://www.google.com/search?q=singularity+%22rapture+for+nerds%22 https://www.google.com/search?q=singularity+%22rapture+for+n...
- ontoillogical 14y ago
  "who doesn’t fancy uploading his soul to the cloud so that it can commingle with the soul of Steve Jobs?" is a great line
mashmac2 14y ago
Morozov (the post's author) has also written a book called The Net Delusion that provides a good background on the less-friendly parts of the Internet. I recommend it for those just entering the IT/Internet-based business world.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
dictum 14y ago
>Given TED’s disproportionate influence on a certain level of the global debate, it follows that the public at large also becomes more approving of technological solutions to problems that are not technological but political. Problems of climate change become problems of making production more efficient or finding ways to colonize other planets—not of reaching political agreement on how to limit production or consume in a more sustainable fashion. Problems of health care become problems of inadequate self-monitoring and data-sharing. Problems of ensuring one’s privacy—which might otherwise get solved by pushing for new laws—become problems of inadequate tools for defending one’s anonymity online or selling access to one’s own data. Likewise, when a publication focused on politics analyzes problems, the solutions are always political, never technological. If you follow the author's logic, most of the issues presented in TED talks could be solved with laws. I'm quite cynical about the somewhat simplistic solutions offered by some TED speakers, but I don't see laws and political debate solving most of the problems TED discusses.
- ippisl 14y ago
  Even when there exist technological solutions to big problems , there's usually a need for strong political component to make them work. Two examples are the birth control pill and the industrial revolution. After the birth control pill finally enabled women to develop careers, it took and is taking a long political struggle for them to have equitable jobs. And even as the industrial productivity increased productivity greatly, people were forced to leave their homes and work long hours for barely subsistence pay , until the worker movement succeeded in helping them. In a world where technology is relatively abundant, the hard problems are still political(at the country, industry or company level).
pasbesoin 14y ago
I don't have the experience with it to make informed comments, but I can't help feeling increasingly that TED is or has become another version of "the beautiful people". The money swirling around it doesn't help, in this regard.
sxcurry 14y ago
tl;dr - Reviewer didn't like the book.
SudarshanP 14y ago
TED and HN provides me better "entertainment" and some knowledge than TV. For learning there is stuff like Coursera, Udacity etc. But I still wished there was something between entertainment and academics. I hope some entrepreneur jumps into this area and creates an awesome solution. It may not make him a billionare. But his/her impact on humanity would be truly great.
- someperson 14y ago
  +1 Expand my mind with documentaries on history, science etc - not just full length hour long ones, even 2-20 minutes is good. As long as it's engaging. I like the idea that TED release talks and books so slowly that you can consume every one (not true for talks, but they're trying with books.) Pity TEDBooks is apparently crap (given the info from the featured article)

88 points by tijs 14y ago

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

It might seem odd that Parag Khanna would turn his attention to the world of technology. He established his reputation as a wannabe geopolitical theorist, something of a modern-day Kissinger, only wired and cool I don't find it strange. Having followed TED for years I have noticed the political under current become more obvious over time. The technocratic political elite like having a forum to promote their agenda, no surprise there really.

DanielBMarkham 14y ago

...Today TED is an insatiable kingpin of international meme laundering... I liked this article a lot, even though I don't have as much experience with the TED community as the author does. Applying a acerbic wit and cynical eye to what we do as technical people is sorely needed. And the author has a point: at some point the language gets so conceptual and fuzzy that it becomes more of a performance than a knowledge-sharing exercise. It's like a carnival for the wannabe Bill Gates of the world. For a couple of years I've been fascinated with the idea that as intelligent people many of us are drawn to activities and consumption that makes us look more intelligent, whether or not we actually learn anything of value from them or not. So we listen to the right music, have the right opinions, and banter on about the right topics in the right way, all the while doing more than just a little social posturing and signalling. Vast segments of intelligentsia are little more than echo chamber. We are giving up independent analysis for pre-digested bits of feel-good junk food. Good to see that argument gaining more traction. Healthy communities require introspection and honest conversations.

alpine 14y ago
I suppose adhering to the echo chamber's rhetoric is where the danger lies. A savvy politician with an ear for techno babble and an agenda detrimental to the hungry listener could make a lot of headway turning his plan into concrete effects before anyone realises what is going on.
hdivider 14y ago
"For a couple of years I've been fascinated with the idea that as intelligent people many of us are drawn to activities and consumption that makes us look more intelligent, whether or not we actually learn anything of value from them or not." This is a very interesting thought. I suppose to some extent that effect is due to there being fewer checks of your ability once you reach a high level of competence in something, simply because there are fewer people who have the ability to do that. One way to mitigate that could be to learn entirely new things that you don't think you have an 'aptitude' for. When you start something really new to you, and later begin to publish stuff made with those new skills, there's a huge number of people who will analyse your work critically.
7952 14y ago
To me TED feels a bit like going to church, just replacing the Bible with technology in a collective experience.
tkahn6 14y ago
> the idea that as intelligent people many of us are drawn to activities and consumption that makes us look more intelligent Relevant essay: http://lesswrong.com/lw/2pv/intellectual_hipsters_and_metacontrarianism/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/2pv/intellectual_hipsters_and_metaco...

delinka 14y ago

"takedown"? I don't think it means what you think it means. As for the article, I kept wanting to nod off. I guess it's just not my style.

mistercow 14y ago
>"takedown"? I don't think it means what you think it means. Take a gander here: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/takedown http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/takedown I see three definitions, two literal and one figurative that apply here: >6. Informal . the act of being humbled. >7. Wrestling . a move or series of maneuvers that succeeds in bringing a standing opponent down onto the mat. >2. a crushing remark [syn: put-down]

kingkawn 14y ago

The herd of independent minds.

tadhgk 14y ago

Sour sour sour grapes. The thing about TED is, wild-eyed though it may be, it's not a political agenda. It's (trying to be) beyond that, about technology and science and understanding, and while the result is often pretty technocratic it is actually often reflecting the benefits of self-organisation through tech. Stuff like Wikipedia, for example, is perfect TED-fodder because it shows demonstrable ways of doing things better. People who do not understand that idea (of which they are many) criticise it on their own terms, and so miss the point. If you are used to seeing life through a political lens (as we might hazard the New Republic does) then TED looks like an agenda by a different name. However that's like religious people insisting that atheists must believe in something, even if that's belief in an idea. It is outside their framework of understanding to consider a person who does not hold any kind of belief. So, personally (and I think the popularity of TED and RSA etc reflect this) this whole article reads like some venting from someone who doesn't really understand the concept, and so can only think of it in terms of politics. These Teddites must have a political view of some kind, right? No. It's trans-political because it's about applied informational learning to solve problems. Politics itself being one of those problems.

alpine 14y ago
I disagree strongly with most of the points you make. I don't think this is a case of sour grapes... and if it is, so what? Because the argument made is entirely reasonable and well done. Whether you agree or not, it is an important view point that has to be aired more often. I personally agree with the author's premise and I think your view that TED doesn't have a political agenda is naive in the extreme.
- tadhgk 14y ago
  I think the argument is neither reasonably made nor well done. It reads like a laundry list of gripes the author has, like "oh yeah, and one more thing, and look at this word, and what a fool this guy is, and one more, and and and" but with some nice verbage. What he doesn't get to the heart of is, aside from the fact that the book may not be very good (which I can easily accept), why the central systems-and-data-driven plank that comprises much of TED-esque thinking is bad. To take one example, he seems to find the whole notion of a hybrid age, or the singularity, as dangerous technocratic political thinking, something to be stamped out. Whereas look at the actual smart-device search-engine semantic-social world we're creeping toward and the post-political person understands that those are just inevitable outcomes. It's not whether the singularity might happen (or could be prevented) but when, and so the forward-looking thinking person should be trying to figure out the best uses of that. He's also missed the pointed examples of Signapore and China by a country mile, mistaking older ideological associations (which, again, every forward-thinking person understands need to be resolved) for the efficiency argument. The reviewer's point is that efficiency leads to brutality, which is a very old-school political idea, but the TED-esque view generally looks for efficiency to promote/empower humanity. Again, like Wikipedia, both more efficient and much better (but let's instead get distracted by talking about Jimmy Wales and how he named his children). So, you know, like that. Morozov seems to want to make a middle-20th century argument about early 21st-century ideas, and it shows. He writes passably well (though this review could have been cut in half with no loss imo), but the core conceit (this TED stuff is techno-politics) is just fundamentally wrong.

Tloewald 14y ago

The author almost but not quite describes "the singularity" as a kind of secular pseudo-intellectual rapture. Nailed it.

_delirium 14y ago
That's an idea that does get thrown around fairly explicitly now and then: https://www.google.com/search?q=singularity+%22rapture+for+nerds%22 https://www.google.com/search?q=singularity+%22rapture+for+n...
ontoillogical 14y ago
"who doesn’t fancy uploading his soul to the cloud so that it can commingle with the soul of Steve Jobs?" is a great line

mashmac2 14y ago

Morozov (the post's author) has also written a book called The Net Delusion that provides a good background on the less-friendly parts of the Internet. I recommend it for those just entering the IT/Internet-based business world.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

dictum 14y ago

>Given TED’s disproportionate influence on a certain level of the global debate, it follows that the public at large also becomes more approving of technological solutions to problems that are not technological but political. Problems of climate change become problems of making production more efficient or finding ways to colonize other planets—not of reaching political agreement on how to limit production or consume in a more sustainable fashion. Problems of health care become problems of inadequate self-monitoring and data-sharing. Problems of ensuring one’s privacy—which might otherwise get solved by pushing for new laws—become problems of inadequate tools for defending one’s anonymity online or selling access to one’s own data. Likewise, when a publication focused on politics analyzes problems, the solutions are always political, never technological. If you follow the author's logic, most of the issues presented in TED talks could be solved with laws. I'm quite cynical about the somewhat simplistic solutions offered by some TED speakers, but I don't see laws and political debate solving most of the problems TED discusses.

ippisl 14y ago
Even when there exist technological solutions to big problems , there's usually a need for strong political component to make them work. Two examples are the birth control pill and the industrial revolution. After the birth control pill finally enabled women to develop careers, it took and is taking a long political struggle for them to have equitable jobs. And even as the industrial productivity increased productivity greatly, people were forced to leave their homes and work long hours for barely subsistence pay , until the worker movement succeeded in helping them. In a world where technology is relatively abundant, the hard problems are still political(at the country, industry or company level).

pasbesoin 14y ago

I don't have the experience with it to make informed comments, but I can't help feeling increasingly that TED is or has become another version of "the beautiful people". The money swirling around it doesn't help, in this regard.

sxcurry 14y ago

tl;dr - Reviewer didn't like the book.

SudarshanP 14y ago

TED and HN provides me better "entertainment" and some knowledge than TV. For learning there is stuff like Coursera, Udacity etc. But I still wished there was something between entertainment and academics. I hope some entrepreneur jumps into this area and creates an awesome solution. It may not make him a billionare. But his/her impact on humanity would be truly great.

someperson 14y ago
+1 Expand my mind with documentaries on history, science etc - not just full length hour long ones, even 2-20 minutes is good. As long as it's engaging. I like the idea that TED release talks and books so slowly that you can consume every one (not true for talks, but they're trying with books.) Pity TEDBooks is apparently crap (given the info from the featured article)