4 ms·

While it would be nice to have some open source and research oriented players, it could also be a massively sponsored Chinese government effort to get people bo

by oezi 2y ago

While it would be nice to have some open source and research oriented players, it could also be a massively sponsored Chinese government effort to get people both domestic and foreign to spill their secrets to an entity from the PRC. Keeping the model open has led to large number of Chinese companies to adopt it, which further increases the value as a spying tool.

luma 2y ago
If someone downloads the open model, how does that create a spying tool for China?
- MaxPock 2y ago
  I'd also love to know .
- throwaway3572 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - jampekka 2y ago
    The models aren't executable binaries. They are sets of network weights that can be run using various (typically open source) third party implementations.
  - manmal 2y ago
    Sibling comment already explains the open weights part; even if there was some small binary wrapper involved, it’s trivial to stop if from phoning home.
- buyucu 2y ago
  it doesn't
- parliament32 2y ago
  It doesn't, that's the joke. Yet pushing FUD has become the norm when an unfriendly country creates a clearly superior product. Just like the whole TikTok ban -- TikTok didn't have any additional access or privileges than any other smartphone app, and used the exact same telemetry/analytics as FB, Instagram, etc.. and yet, the spyware/malware angle was pushed heavily.
_lvbh 2y ago
Why does everything have to be seen through the lens of conflict and warmongering? The goal should be the betterment of all humanity, and an "adversary" benefiting from a global improvement in quality of life should not be reason enough to deny everyone breakthroughs in technology.
- woleium 2y ago
  Some people see the world as a zero sum game.
delusional 2y ago
I'm in Europe. With the current US administration, I could say the exact same thing about American companies. The US government is clearly willing to use every single commercial enterprise located in the US as leverage. At this point China seems like the less harmful of the two choices.
- XorNot 2y ago
  The enemy of your enemy is just your enemy's enemy. Why does everyone insist on picking a side rather then having any pride in their own nations? Europe is large, educated and capable of it's developments. No one needs to pick anything.
  - necovek 2y ago
    Why would anyone see these countries as being one another's enemy, though? They are battling to be the leading superpower in the world, but they are not enemies: annual trade volume between them certainly attests to that. In that sense, you can also look to extract value from either side. In the US, I'd definitely turn to China's depictions of US events to understand how it looks from another superpower's angle: you can still take that critically and not at face value, but it might be refreshing in that it's not polarised in the same way (Republicans vs Democrats).
  - delusional 2y ago
    > The enemy of your enemy is just your enemy's enemy. That's a little much. I'm not at war here. Where traditionally the US has been viewed as a mentor, or maybe a benevolent parent, by and of the European union nations, It has now switched into that of an abusive boss. I'm not at war with my boss. He is not my enemy. I do however have to continually adjust my stance towards him, always taking into account that he would sell me in a heartbeat if there was a benefit to him. That the company is not my friend. That stops me from sometimes doing the most mutually beneficial thing, because I have to protect myself by taking a defensive stance. I'm very hopeful for Europe, and thankful that my system roughly works. It's not like I loved the US policy before Trump, but now flipped. What is happening in the US was always what I thought was most likely, corporatism run amok. That doesn't make the US "an enemy" but rather an unreliable friend.
suraci 2y ago
Approximately 7% of Chinese people are registered CCP members. CCP mandates that if a company has three or more CCP members, a Party branch must be established. Statistically, if DeepSeek has more than 100 employees, there is over a 97% probability that a CCP branch exists within the company.

by oezi 2y ago

luma 2y ago

If someone downloads the open model, how does that create a spying tool for China?

MaxPock 2y ago
I'd also love to know .
throwaway3572 2y ago
[flagged]
- jampekka 2y ago
  The models aren't executable binaries. They are sets of network weights that can be run using various (typically open source) third party implementations.
- manmal 2y ago
  Sibling comment already explains the open weights part; even if there was some small binary wrapper involved, it’s trivial to stop if from phoning home.
buyucu 2y ago
it doesn't
parliament32 2y ago
It doesn't, that's the joke. Yet pushing FUD has become the norm when an unfriendly country creates a clearly superior product. Just like the whole TikTok ban -- TikTok didn't have any additional access or privileges than any other smartphone app, and used the exact same telemetry/analytics as FB, Instagram, etc.. and yet, the spyware/malware angle was pushed heavily.

_lvbh 2y ago

Why does everything have to be seen through the lens of conflict and warmongering? The goal should be the betterment of all humanity, and an "adversary" benefiting from a global improvement in quality of life should not be reason enough to deny everyone breakthroughs in technology.

woleium 2y ago
Some people see the world as a zero sum game.

delusional 2y ago

I'm in Europe. With the current US administration, I could say the exact same thing about American companies. The US government is clearly willing to use every single commercial enterprise located in the US as leverage. At this point China seems like the less harmful of the two choices.

XorNot 2y ago
The enemy of your enemy is just your enemy's enemy. Why does everyone insist on picking a side rather then having any pride in their own nations? Europe is large, educated and capable of it's developments. No one needs to pick anything.
- necovek 2y ago
  Why would anyone see these countries as being one another's enemy, though? They are battling to be the leading superpower in the world, but they are not enemies: annual trade volume between them certainly attests to that. In that sense, you can also look to extract value from either side. In the US, I'd definitely turn to China's depictions of US events to understand how it looks from another superpower's angle: you can still take that critically and not at face value, but it might be refreshing in that it's not polarised in the same way (Republicans vs Democrats).
- delusional 2y ago
  > The enemy of your enemy is just your enemy's enemy. That's a little much. I'm not at war here. Where traditionally the US has been viewed as a mentor, or maybe a benevolent parent, by and of the European union nations, It has now switched into that of an abusive boss. I'm not at war with my boss. He is not my enemy. I do however have to continually adjust my stance towards him, always taking into account that he would sell me in a heartbeat if there was a benefit to him. That the company is not my friend. That stops me from sometimes doing the most mutually beneficial thing, because I have to protect myself by taking a defensive stance. I'm very hopeful for Europe, and thankful that my system roughly works. It's not like I loved the US policy before Trump, but now flipped. What is happening in the US was always what I thought was most likely, corporatism run amok. That doesn't make the US "an enemy" but rather an unreliable friend.

suraci 2y ago

Approximately 7% of Chinese people are registered CCP members. CCP mandates that if a company has three or more CCP members, a Party branch must be established. Statistically, if DeepSeek has more than 100 employees, there is over a 97% probability that a CCP branch exists within the company.