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Amazingly enough, I and millions of other developers have managed to find jobs outside of the Bay Area. Personally, I’ve been finding jobs quite easily 10x sin

Amazingly enough, I and millions of other developers have managed to find jobs outside of the Bay Area. Personally, I’ve been finding jobs quite easily 10x since 1996 - the last 2 in 2023 and last year. > Look at the requirements for your dream job and figure out what you need to learn to qualify. Those jobs in the Bay Area mostly require you to “grind leetCode” and system design. They really don’t require you to know the latest frameworks, databases, Kubernetes, etc

tibbar 2y ago
Hey, as I said in another thread, I did not start out working in the Bay, and ended up here somewhat by accident. It shocked me how much easier it was to find good jobs here, and I'll stand by that. With that said, of course I say this with no judgment to anyone not in the Bay or other tech hubs, it's friendly advice from personal experience. > Those jobs in the Bay Area mostly require you to “grind leetCode” and system design. They really don’t require you to know the latest frameworks, databases, Kubernetes, etc Hmm, it sounds like you have a negative opinion of Bay Area jobs in general. I'm asking people to first figure out what work sounds interesting to them, and then learn the relevant skills. If you have the skills, the Bay Area probably has the right job, too. Of course these jobs also exist elsewhere, I'm not sure why I'm triggering this reaction...
- scarface_74 2y ago
  I’ve worked for BigTech. If you look at how to pass any of the interview processes, it’s basically all about generic coding interviews. That’s it, those are the only “skills” you have to have to get into the BigTech - pass coding and system design interviews. And there are thousands of developers looking for jobs - even those who are coming out of well known tech companies.
  - tibbar 2y ago
    I agree, that is how many big tech interviews look. I've done 'em too. If one's dream job is a generic, mid-level role at BigTech, then the path is clear - get very good at Leetcode and system design, and flag down a recruiter. My dream jobs tend to be more eclectic, and not necessarily at giant companies. I'm more interested in getting really skilled at a particular type of technology and being hired to work on that. And this kind of targeted recruitment still exists at big companies, too. But also Leetcode doesn't scare me too much, so maybe I'm dismissing it too easily. I've done a lot of those problems over the years, and I'm FAR from great at them but it's never been the blocker to a particular role in practice.
    - scarface_74 2y ago
      Most people’s “dreams” have nothing to do with working. Their dream is to have a combination of shit ton of money appear in their bank accounts every pay period and stock to appear in their brokerage account every vesting period. True there are some who want to win the lottery and accept less than their market rate in exchange for “equity” in a non public company that will statistically be worthless. Coding interviews are definitely is still the part of the process you have to pass unless you are a very well known big deal in the industry. BigTech companies want versatile developers who can move around as necessary. There are no “inside tracks” for 99% of positions aside from probably acquihires. You go through the grind regardless. Open source contributions really don’t mean that much. Infamously https://x.com/mxcl/status/608682016205344768?lang=en https://x.com/mxcl/status/608682016205344768?lang=en
      - tibbar 2y ago
        It seems like you're really focused on the interview process for a small number of very large tech companies. My experience doesn't match yours - I have been recruited to a specific BigTech team based on my background, and the interviews were more focused on specific skills than leetcode. But it seems like most BigTech interviews probably are coding/system design. With that said, I have tended to interview more at scaleups/late-stage startups in recent years, and it's been very rare to see a truly leetcode-heavy interview process. These are positions that pay comparably to big tech, although the equity is generally more risky. But I've also been able to cash out some startup equity, so maybe my experience is not representative again... > Most people’s “dreams” have nothing to do with working This line always seems like a cop-out to me. Almost all of us have to work, and it takes a huge amount of our time. And for many of us in the tech industry, we have been intrinsically interested in this tech since we were kids, and have specific stuff we'd prefer to work on. Can we just accept that certain work is going to be more interesting for certain people, and that they might want to steer their careers in that direction, especially if it pays better?
        scarface_74 2y ago
        By pay similar to BigTech do you mean the cash you get paid at a startup/scale up is similar to cash + liquid public RSUs? Equity in private companies especially in today’s climate is statistically meaningless. And if you look at the companies that pay the most + have the largest number of opportunities, they are the “small number” of BigTech companies And back to the Bay Area argument. Most of the major public tech companies have offices all over the US that pay the same with a much lower cost of living.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
yolovoe 2y ago
> They really don’t require you to know the latest frameworks, databases, Kubernetes, etc The latest "framework, databases" are constantly changing. Being good at leetcode and system design is a better signal (ofcourse, not perfect) than knowing specific tools. Being good at system design implies you are aware of tradeoffs across various systems, and that coupled with willingness to grind means you can at pick up new tools and probably deliver on projects. I have used 13 languages and an equally absurd amount of tools across 4 orgs in my 5 YOE at FAANG. It's constant learning, or you're out basically. Doesn't make sense to quiz on anything specific. The interview process is quite fair actually.
- margalabargala 2y ago
  System design yes, leetcode no. Leetcode is only a useful problem to ask if the candidate has not encountered that problem before and has not practiced leetcode. Otherwise it is exactly as good a signal as knowing some arbitrary framework or database.
  - yolovoe 2y ago
    Leetcode shows candidates willingness to grind.
    - margalabargala 2y ago
      "Grind" just means "memorize a bunch of stuff for later regurgitation", which is the same thing as is demonstrated by memorizing the API for some arbitrary database or javascript framework. Willingness to "grind" is a positive signal for people hiring developers in the same way that low critical thinking skills is a positive signal for people hiring law enforcement officers, and results in a team of similar quality.
      - yolovoe 2y ago
        Leetcode is a standardized test that shows your ability to write code, grind and pattern match in a very complicated space. It is not possible to memorize solutions to all problems. There are way too many problems in this space. All the people complaining about leetcode are a prime example of this. It takes a lot of time and background knowledge to learn all the algorithms, data-structures, and problem-solving patterns... to get good to the level where you can ace FAANG and trading interviews with a high probability. It's a more useful metric than memorizing specific APIs which is not standardized, has basically no/simple pattern matching, and does not really test coding skills. There are also too many frameworks, and this just doesn't stand the test of time. People would need to constantly re-learn frameworks for interviews. Most companies have been using leetcode and system design for dozens of years for a reason. It's not changing anytime soon. Also, leetcode can be really fun :) if you remind yourself to be truly curious about the problem.

tibbar 2y ago

Hey, as I said in another thread, I did not start out working in the Bay, and ended up here somewhat by accident. It shocked me how much easier it was to find good jobs here, and I'll stand by that. With that said, of course I say this with no judgment to anyone not in the Bay or other tech hubs, it's friendly advice from personal experience. > Those jobs in the Bay Area mostly require you to “grind leetCode” and system design. They really don’t require you to know the latest frameworks, databases, Kubernetes, etc Hmm, it sounds like you have a negative opinion of Bay Area jobs in general. I'm asking people to first figure out what work sounds interesting to them, and then learn the relevant skills. If you have the skills, the Bay Area probably has the right job, too. Of course these jobs also exist elsewhere, I'm not sure why I'm triggering this reaction...

scarface_74 2y ago
I’ve worked for BigTech. If you look at how to pass any of the interview processes, it’s basically all about generic coding interviews. That’s it, those are the only “skills” you have to have to get into the BigTech - pass coding and system design interviews. And there are thousands of developers looking for jobs - even those who are coming out of well known tech companies.
- tibbar 2y ago
  I agree, that is how many big tech interviews look. I've done 'em too. If one's dream job is a generic, mid-level role at BigTech, then the path is clear - get very good at Leetcode and system design, and flag down a recruiter. My dream jobs tend to be more eclectic, and not necessarily at giant companies. I'm more interested in getting really skilled at a particular type of technology and being hired to work on that. And this kind of targeted recruitment still exists at big companies, too. But also Leetcode doesn't scare me too much, so maybe I'm dismissing it too easily. I've done a lot of those problems over the years, and I'm FAR from great at them but it's never been the blocker to a particular role in practice.
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    Most people’s “dreams” have nothing to do with working. Their dream is to have a combination of shit ton of money appear in their bank accounts every pay period and stock to appear in their brokerage account every vesting period. True there are some who want to win the lottery and accept less than their market rate in exchange for “equity” in a non public company that will statistically be worthless. Coding interviews are definitely is still the part of the process you have to pass unless you are a very well known big deal in the industry. BigTech companies want versatile developers who can move around as necessary. There are no “inside tracks” for 99% of positions aside from probably acquihires. You go through the grind regardless. Open source contributions really don’t mean that much. Infamously https://x.com/mxcl/status/608682016205344768?lang=en https://x.com/mxcl/status/608682016205344768?lang=en
    - tibbar 2y ago
      It seems like you're really focused on the interview process for a small number of very large tech companies. My experience doesn't match yours - I have been recruited to a specific BigTech team based on my background, and the interviews were more focused on specific skills than leetcode. But it seems like most BigTech interviews probably are coding/system design. With that said, I have tended to interview more at scaleups/late-stage startups in recent years, and it's been very rare to see a truly leetcode-heavy interview process. These are positions that pay comparably to big tech, although the equity is generally more risky. But I've also been able to cash out some startup equity, so maybe my experience is not representative again... > Most people’s “dreams” have nothing to do with working This line always seems like a cop-out to me. Almost all of us have to work, and it takes a huge amount of our time. And for many of us in the tech industry, we have been intrinsically interested in this tech since we were kids, and have specific stuff we'd prefer to work on. Can we just accept that certain work is going to be more interesting for certain people, and that they might want to steer their careers in that direction, especially if it pays better?
      - scarface_74 2y ago
        By pay similar to BigTech do you mean the cash you get paid at a startup/scale up is similar to cash + liquid public RSUs? Equity in private companies especially in today’s climate is statistically meaningless. And if you look at the companies that pay the most + have the largest number of opportunities, they are the “small number” of BigTech companies And back to the Bay Area argument. Most of the major public tech companies have offices all over the US that pay the same with a much lower cost of living.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

yolovoe 2y ago

> They really don’t require you to know the latest frameworks, databases, Kubernetes, etc The latest "framework, databases" are constantly changing. Being good at leetcode and system design is a better signal (ofcourse, not perfect) than knowing specific tools. Being good at system design implies you are aware of tradeoffs across various systems, and that coupled with willingness to grind means you can at pick up new tools and probably deliver on projects. I have used 13 languages and an equally absurd amount of tools across 4 orgs in my 5 YOE at FAANG. It's constant learning, or you're out basically. Doesn't make sense to quiz on anything specific. The interview process is quite fair actually.

margalabargala 2y ago
System design yes, leetcode no. Leetcode is only a useful problem to ask if the candidate has not encountered that problem before and has not practiced leetcode. Otherwise it is exactly as good a signal as knowing some arbitrary framework or database.
- yolovoe 2y ago
  Leetcode shows candidates willingness to grind.
  - margalabargala 2y ago
    "Grind" just means "memorize a bunch of stuff for later regurgitation", which is the same thing as is demonstrated by memorizing the API for some arbitrary database or javascript framework. Willingness to "grind" is a positive signal for people hiring developers in the same way that low critical thinking skills is a positive signal for people hiring law enforcement officers, and results in a team of similar quality.
    - yolovoe 2y ago
      Leetcode is a standardized test that shows your ability to write code, grind and pattern match in a very complicated space. It is not possible to memorize solutions to all problems. There are way too many problems in this space. All the people complaining about leetcode are a prime example of this. It takes a lot of time and background knowledge to learn all the algorithms, data-structures, and problem-solving patterns... to get good to the level where you can ace FAANG and trading interviews with a high probability. It's a more useful metric than memorizing specific APIs which is not standardized, has basically no/simple pattern matching, and does not really test coding skills. There are also too many frameworks, and this just doesn't stand the test of time. People would need to constantly re-learn frameworks for interviews. Most companies have been using leetcode and system design for dozens of years for a reason. It's not changing anytime soon. Also, leetcode can be really fun :) if you remind yourself to be truly curious about the problem.