5 ms·

Because they failed to maintain or invest in a regular grid. Off-grid, battery-backed is far more expensive than generator-backed at scale… at least for now. An

Because they failed to maintain or invest in a regular grid. Off-grid, battery-backed is far more expensive than generator-backed at scale… at least for now. And you still need generators for poor weather.

thinkingkong 2y ago
Youre also forgetting another component which is that the instrastructure gets torn down or stolen because it has market value. The replacement, maintenance, and security of wired grids is likely higher.
- curiousmind96 2y ago
  Why would infrastructure get torn down once it’s in place?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - dgacmu 2y ago
    Copper wire has high resale value. So do solar panels. Copper theft is a problem worldwide, including the US.
    - atonse 2y ago
      I was at my local Home Depot last weekend and the rep told me that just a few weeks prior, a couple people stole a couple rolls of electrical wire (romex) and the value was over $4,000 because of the cost of the copper in it. I was buying a 15ft strand and it was $18.
      - philipkglass 2y ago
        Copper as a commodity is currently worth under $5/pound: https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/copper https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/copper It's probably worth even less if you have to resell wire to recycling businesses of the "no questions about where you got it" variety. Are these wire rolls large enough to contain a thousand pounds of copper?
        atonse 2y ago
        Not sure but the price tag of each roll was about $1,500. So I think it was a 1000ft spool.
  - zdragnar 2y ago
    The local militia or government wants money and doesn't care overmuch about the locals themselves, presumably.
soulofmischief 2y ago
You seem to have conveniently forgotten about centuries of colonialism, resource exploitation and state-sponsored regime changes, which still plague Africa today.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- curiousmind96 2y ago
  [dead]
- twoodfin 2y ago
  How would you differentiate Africa from East Asia in those regards?
  - ForTheKidz 2y ago
    1) se asia is a much more densely populated region, making infrastructure cheaper per capita to produce (some things scale better, most do not) and 2) se asia has capital flowing through it at a far higher volume, mostly because of manufacturing. I can't speak to why there historically hasn't been as much manufacturing in Africa—I'm guessing it's just cheaper to colocate with others for lower costs across the board? Regardless, (neo)colonialism does dominate both regions—it's a hard state to avoid if you want to interact with a global economy at a deep financial disadvantage.
    - alephnerd 2y ago
      > se asia is a much more densely populated region, making infrastructure cheaper per capita to produce Most of South East Asia has developmental indicators comparable to most of Sub Saharan Africa. Sub Saharan Africa has plenty of basket cases (DRC, CAR, Mozambique), but it also has plenty of countries on the same general trajectory as South East Asian countries (Kenya, Nigeria, Uganda, Tanzania, Senegal). "Africa" and "Asia" is broad and it's dumb ti compare the two. > se asia has capital flowing through it at a far higher volume, mostly because of manufacturing Not exactly. Much of South East Asia has strong capital market integrations with Singapore, Hong Kong, Japan, and South Korea which makes it easier for liquid capital to flow. African nations that have integrated their capital markets with foreign markets open to taking risks in LDCs (UAE, China, India) have seen a leapfrogging in economic capabilities. You see this with Ethiopia, Nigeria, Kenya, and Uganda. > se asia What do you mean by SEA? And what do you mean by East Asia?
toomuchtodo 2y ago
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/solar-pv-prices https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/solar-pv-prices https://ourworldindata.org/battery-price-decline https://ourworldindata.org/battery-price-decline https://developmentreimagined.com/infographic-exploring-africas-renewable-solar-power-potential-in-2023/ https://developmentreimagined.com/infographic-exploring-afri... https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/72h/hourly https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/72h/hourly (center map on Africa) Africa is leapfrogging legacy electrical infra models, and likely has no need for the legacy model of centralized generation and long haul transmission to load centers. (the battery costs in the Our World in Data citation are already out of date, and as of 2023, the average global price of batteries was $95/kWh, see https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2024-07-09/china-s-batteries-are-now-cheap-enough-to-power-huge-shifts https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2024-07-09/china-... | https://archive.today/DklaA https://archive.today/DklaA for more)
- astral_drama 2y ago
  I recently bought 4 lifepo4 12v 100ah ~1200 wh for $159 off Amazon as a retail customer. Battery storage is indeed cheap and accessible to the average person. Pair it with new 24% efficient solar panels and you can see why there's little to be gained by running expensive lines to distribute power when it can be sent everywhere wirelessly. It's not too different to how developing counties rolled out wireless Internet and gained a huge benefit without much infrastructure investment.
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    Indeed, and that is current state; renewables and battery manufacturing continues to ramp, which will encourage further cost declines. This is objectively good, it democratizes low carbon, cheap energy.

thinkingkong 2y ago

Youre also forgetting another component which is that the instrastructure gets torn down or stolen because it has market value. The replacement, maintenance, and security of wired grids is likely higher.

curiousmind96 2y ago
Why would infrastructure get torn down once it’s in place?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- dgacmu 2y ago
  Copper wire has high resale value. So do solar panels. Copper theft is a problem worldwide, including the US.
  - atonse 2y ago
    I was at my local Home Depot last weekend and the rep told me that just a few weeks prior, a couple people stole a couple rolls of electrical wire (romex) and the value was over $4,000 because of the cost of the copper in it. I was buying a 15ft strand and it was $18.
    - philipkglass 2y ago
      Copper as a commodity is currently worth under $5/pound: https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/copper https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/copper It's probably worth even less if you have to resell wire to recycling businesses of the "no questions about where you got it" variety. Are these wire rolls large enough to contain a thousand pounds of copper?
      - atonse 2y ago
        Not sure but the price tag of each roll was about $1,500. So I think it was a 1000ft spool.
- zdragnar 2y ago
  The local militia or government wants money and doesn't care overmuch about the locals themselves, presumably.

soulofmischief 2y ago

You seem to have conveniently forgotten about centuries of colonialism, resource exploitation and state-sponsored regime changes, which still plague Africa today.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
curiousmind96 2y ago
[dead]
twoodfin 2y ago
How would you differentiate Africa from East Asia in those regards?
- ForTheKidz 2y ago
  1) se asia is a much more densely populated region, making infrastructure cheaper per capita to produce (some things scale better, most do not) and 2) se asia has capital flowing through it at a far higher volume, mostly because of manufacturing. I can't speak to why there historically hasn't been as much manufacturing in Africa—I'm guessing it's just cheaper to colocate with others for lower costs across the board? Regardless, (neo)colonialism does dominate both regions—it's a hard state to avoid if you want to interact with a global economy at a deep financial disadvantage.
  - alephnerd 2y ago
    > se asia is a much more densely populated region, making infrastructure cheaper per capita to produce Most of South East Asia has developmental indicators comparable to most of Sub Saharan Africa. Sub Saharan Africa has plenty of basket cases (DRC, CAR, Mozambique), but it also has plenty of countries on the same general trajectory as South East Asian countries (Kenya, Nigeria, Uganda, Tanzania, Senegal). "Africa" and "Asia" is broad and it's dumb ti compare the two. > se asia has capital flowing through it at a far higher volume, mostly because of manufacturing Not exactly. Much of South East Asia has strong capital market integrations with Singapore, Hong Kong, Japan, and South Korea which makes it easier for liquid capital to flow. African nations that have integrated their capital markets with foreign markets open to taking risks in LDCs (UAE, China, India) have seen a leapfrogging in economic capabilities. You see this with Ethiopia, Nigeria, Kenya, and Uganda. > se asia What do you mean by SEA? And what do you mean by East Asia?

toomuchtodo 2y ago

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/solar-pv-prices https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/solar-pv-prices https://ourworldindata.org/battery-price-decline https://ourworldindata.org/battery-price-decline https://developmentreimagined.com/infographic-exploring-africas-renewable-solar-power-potential-in-2023/ https://developmentreimagined.com/infographic-exploring-afri... https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/72h/hourly https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/72h/hourly (center map on Africa) Africa is leapfrogging legacy electrical infra models, and likely has no need for the legacy model of centralized generation and long haul transmission to load centers. (the battery costs in the Our World in Data citation are already out of date, and as of 2023, the average global price of batteries was $95/kWh, see https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2024-07-09/china-s-batteries-are-now-cheap-enough-to-power-huge-shifts https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2024-07-09/china-... | https://archive.today/DklaA https://archive.today/DklaA for more)

astral_drama 2y ago
I recently bought 4 lifepo4 12v 100ah ~1200 wh for $159 off Amazon as a retail customer. Battery storage is indeed cheap and accessible to the average person. Pair it with new 24% efficient solar panels and you can see why there's little to be gained by running expensive lines to distribute power when it can be sent everywhere wirelessly. It's not too different to how developing counties rolled out wireless Internet and gained a huge benefit without much infrastructure investment.
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  Indeed, and that is current state; renewables and battery manufacturing continues to ramp, which will encourage further cost declines. This is objectively good, it democratizes low carbon, cheap energy.