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I actually have an app in iOS store that completely executes in the background: https://itunes.apple.com/app/id6737482921?mt=8 https://itunes.apple.com/app/id67

I actually have an app in iOS store that completely executes in the background: https://itunes.apple.com/app/id6737482921?mt=8 https://itunes.apple.com/app/id6737482921?mt=8 Never had it stopped by iOS. So not only there's no fundamental restriction, the App Store itself allows some apps to do that.

monocularvision 2y ago
What API are you using to keep running in the background? Most likely you are misusing it on some manner and have yet to get caught by App Review.
- idle_zealot 2y ago
  I've seen this bypassed via background audio and background location.
  - lostmsu 2y ago
    The app does background audio, and its use is legitimate. It is an audio app. But the point is - there's no fundamental restriction from the OS itself.
    - redserk 2y ago
      You contradicted yourself. Whether you want to call it a “restriction”, “a lack of permission without being X type of activity”, or “it works because the app exhibits Y behavior”, it’s all functionally a restriction. You can run some background activities that are not audio apps, but you’re at the mercy of iOS’s decision to keep your task active or not. If you’re off the charger, all bets are off. iOS’s dev docs make this very clear.
      - lostmsu 2y ago
        No, basic set theory: not every restriction is a fundamental restriction.
        redserk 2y ago
        Elaborate?
        lostmsu 2y ago
        I said NOT(rule in "fundamental restrictions") AND (rule is XXX). You showed (XXX in "restrictions"). It would have been sufficient to prove my statement false if "fundamental restrictions" === "restrictions", but it is not.
    - lxgr 2y ago
      Another way of phrasing this: There is a fundamental restriction, with a carve out for a few specific things, including audio playback.
      - lostmsu 2y ago
        I don't think you understand the difference between a fundamental restriction and a restriction in general.
        lxgr 2y ago
        What’s not fundamental about the OS pausing any background thread that doesn’t have an excuse to continue running from a relatively short list?
        lostmsu 2y ago
        I am not here to debate meaning of words. If LLaMA 3.1 8B can understand the difference between a fundamental restriction and a restriction in general on its own, so can you. If you feel like this topic is worth your time for intellectual pursuit, feel free to debate with it: https://huggingface.co/meta-llama/Llama-3.1-8B-Instruct https://huggingface.co/meta-llama/Llama-3.1-8B-Instruct I don't feel that it is worth mine. See if you can convince it the definition your are implying is more accepted than the one I am.
        lxgr 2y ago
        > I am not here to debate meaning of words You say that, but then you dedicate a whole paragraph to my potentially (I’m not a native speaker, so it’s very possible) incorrect word usage :) But also, I took your advice and had a chat with an LLM – seems like it's pretty much in agreement with my understanding of the meaning of "fundamental" as a plausible one.
        lostmsu 2y ago
        Plausible is not more common/more accepted.
forgotpwd16 2y ago
Not sure what you mean with fundamental. As mentioned in the thread parent comment links to, the issue lies in enforced limits and lack* of general mechanism available to developers to allow background execution for any kind of app or/and purpose. No one said iOS itself lacks the functionality for background execution. *In the same thread, it is noted that this lack is by choice and special-purpose mechanisms are preferred instead to prevent abuse.

monocularvision 2y ago

What API are you using to keep running in the background? Most likely you are misusing it on some manner and have yet to get caught by App Review.

idle_zealot 2y ago
I've seen this bypassed via background audio and background location.
- lostmsu 2y ago
  The app does background audio, and its use is legitimate. It is an audio app. But the point is - there's no fundamental restriction from the OS itself.
  - redserk 2y ago
    You contradicted yourself. Whether you want to call it a “restriction”, “a lack of permission without being X type of activity”, or “it works because the app exhibits Y behavior”, it’s all functionally a restriction. You can run some background activities that are not audio apps, but you’re at the mercy of iOS’s decision to keep your task active or not. If you’re off the charger, all bets are off. iOS’s dev docs make this very clear.
    - lostmsu 2y ago
      No, basic set theory: not every restriction is a fundamental restriction.
      - redserk 2y ago
        Elaborate?
        lostmsu 2y ago
        I said NOT(rule in "fundamental restrictions") AND (rule is XXX). You showed (XXX in "restrictions"). It would have been sufficient to prove my statement false if "fundamental restrictions" === "restrictions", but it is not.
  - lxgr 2y ago
    Another way of phrasing this: There is a fundamental restriction, with a carve out for a few specific things, including audio playback.
    - lostmsu 2y ago
      I don't think you understand the difference between a fundamental restriction and a restriction in general.
      - lxgr 2y ago
        What’s not fundamental about the OS pausing any background thread that doesn’t have an excuse to continue running from a relatively short list?
        lostmsu 2y ago
        I am not here to debate meaning of words. If LLaMA 3.1 8B can understand the difference between a fundamental restriction and a restriction in general on its own, so can you. If you feel like this topic is worth your time for intellectual pursuit, feel free to debate with it: https://huggingface.co/meta-llama/Llama-3.1-8B-Instruct https://huggingface.co/meta-llama/Llama-3.1-8B-Instruct I don't feel that it is worth mine. See if you can convince it the definition your are implying is more accepted than the one I am.
        lxgr 2y ago
        > I am not here to debate meaning of words You say that, but then you dedicate a whole paragraph to my potentially (I’m not a native speaker, so it’s very possible) incorrect word usage :) But also, I took your advice and had a chat with an LLM – seems like it's pretty much in agreement with my understanding of the meaning of "fundamental" as a plausible one.
        lostmsu 2y ago
        Plausible is not more common/more accepted.

forgotpwd16 2y ago

Not sure what you mean with fundamental. As mentioned in the thread parent comment links to, the issue lies in enforced limits and lack* of general mechanism available to developers to allow background execution for any kind of app or/and purpose. No one said iOS itself lacks the functionality for background execution. *In the same thread, it is noted that this lack is by choice and special-purpose mechanisms are preferred instead to prevent abuse.