4 ms·

I think we need a bigger boot partition

26 points by fernvenue 2y ago

div72 2y ago
What? Why is your NVIDIA modules even in the boot partition? My largest /boot is on Fedora and that's 454MiB, 87MiB on Arch and 30MiB on NixOS. EDIT: "With grub, the situation varies; if the device has a graphics card, it usually means that driver modules need to be placed in the boot as well.", "usually" carries a lot of weight here, none of the systems I had had this kind of a requirement.
- Starlevel004 2y ago
  > What? Why is your NVIDIA modules even in the boot partition? Early kernel modesetting requires the drivers in the initramfs.
  - ChocolateGod 2y ago
    The kernel should be able to use the framebuffer from the UEFI, which the GPU would of already setup, then let the desktop modeset to the target resolution if needed (using the driver). This is what Windows has been doing without issues for over 10 years. We don't need larger /boot partitions, we need a better boot process that doesn't need infinitely growing space.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - DuncanCoffee 2y ago
    Yeah, with a 500 MB partition I cannot have both the normal and LTS kernel thanks to that, and resizing it sound like a good way to break stuff, so I'll pass for now
  - adrian_b 2y ago
    There is no need for early kernel modesetting. On the systems where I have seen this happening, it is normally extremely annoying, because it may select a minuscule bitmap font on a high-resolution display. The user may need to type almost blindly the terminal command for changing the font to the biggest bitmap font provided with the Linux kernel, which for a long time had been sun12x22, but nowadays there is also a more decent ter16x32. It is better when the kernel stays in VGA mode until X is started.
forty 2y ago
Maybe try MODULES=dep in /etc/initramfs-tools/modules https://manpages.debian.org/jessie/initramfs-tools/initramfs.conf.5.en.html https://manpages.debian.org/jessie/initramfs-tools/initramfs...
dcan 2y ago
Gray text on a black background is an awful colour choice for this website
- nickthegreek 2y ago
  indeed. the offwhite headline color should also be set to the body text.
- kgwxd 2y ago
  I got black text on a white background
  - nickthegreek 2y ago
    the site uses the css prefers-color-scheme to see if your system has light or dark theme selected and chooses the colors based on that.
anotherhue 2y ago
"You're gonna need a bigger boot?"
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
ohazi 2y ago
I encountered the same issue on my desktop, but ended up doing the partition surgery a little differently. First I resized /, /home, etc. for some extra space, then I moved them all forward a bit, then I resized /boot. Complicated by various layers of LVM and encryption. This took longer and in retrospect was perhaps a bit riskier, but it had the advantage of not needing to change any configuration on the actual system (since all of the partition numbers/names/uuids remained the same -- they just showed up at slightly different places with slightly different sizes). So the whole operation could be done entirely from a live/rescue environment.
Calwestjobs 2y ago
Boot partition is unnecessary, not unnecessary when something something, IT IS unnecessary EVERYWHERE EVERYTIME. and even if for some edgiest edge case you need boot partition, NO you do NOT need any graphics driver in your /boot, who said you need it there? Kernel does not need 3D acceleration for bringing you to userspace. You just blink your screen one more time, and prolong boot, there will be no other "effect" from that. Also why the literal ... do people use GRUB, gummyboot, clover... still? UEFI IS your bootloader that is whole point of having UEFI, so you do not need anything else to boot your kernel and IT IS working like that. So why are linux distributions still JUST copy pasting scripts instead of making boot properly? Same annoying nonsensical debate as with supporting of 32bit. Just do things like they are supposed to work in 21 century, period. Clear linux can boot 57 times faster then ubuntu or fedora.... JUST by not supporting intel 80486 booting process, do YOU have 486, NO. But your distribution requires you to boot like on 486 why that is ? Because nonsensical blablabla AND on old thinkpads, you can install coreboot into "BIOSFLASH" which provides similar boot experience as in UEFI, or just put linux kernel directly into flash which will be your bootloader(kexec), that way you can even emulate features (like in clover hackintosh) and install even win11 / macos on it. or do whole ("secure") measured boot on it that way... Why are we doing this nonsensical stuff? If you have spare drive, install Clear linux on it. and compare boot speed with your os of choice on same drive. I am not saying you have to use Clear Linux, just maybe try to do SOME things like they do in other distros ? (package manager in Clear linux is annoying) Focus on supporting current stuff and require itsy, tiny bit of config on OLD, not 10 year old, because that IS current (UEFI), but literally 40 year old. Most distros not even support that old system but they require you to boot like you have 40 year old system, nonsense.
- yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
  > Also why the literal ... do people use GRUB, gummyboot, clover... still? UEFI IS your bootloader that is whole point of having UEFI, so you do not need anything else to boot your kernel and IT IS working like that. It does work in the easy case, but UEFI is an inferior bootloader to the others. For example: If I need to live edit boot parameters with GRUB, I get to the boot menu, scroll to the relevant entry, hit a key, edit however I want, and hit a key to boot. I'm not sure if that's possible at all with pure UEFI; maybe you can get a UEFI shell and pass options to the kernel (maybe, not sure), but I don't think it lets you edit existing options. I've also heard arguments about avoiding writing to the limited flash on the motherboard by not saving configuration there that has to change.
bjourne 2y ago
I only use about 50 mb of my boot partition with refind as my boot manager. Come to think of it, why on earth do we still need boot partitions? Why can't Windows, Linux, iOS, etc coexist in the same file system?
- yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
  Because Windows is a bad neighbor and happily overwrites anything else.

26 points by fernvenue 2y ago

What? Why is your NVIDIA modules even in the boot partition? My largest /boot is on Fedora and that's 454MiB, 87MiB on Arch and 30MiB on NixOS. EDIT: "With grub, the situation varies; if the device has a graphics card, it usually means that driver modules need to be placed in the boot as well.", "usually" carries a lot of weight here, none of the systems I had had this kind of a requirement.

Starlevel004 2y ago
> What? Why is your NVIDIA modules even in the boot partition? Early kernel modesetting requires the drivers in the initramfs.
- ChocolateGod 2y ago
  The kernel should be able to use the framebuffer from the UEFI, which the GPU would of already setup, then let the desktop modeset to the target resolution if needed (using the driver). This is what Windows has been doing without issues for over 10 years. We don't need larger /boot partitions, we need a better boot process that doesn't need infinitely growing space.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- DuncanCoffee 2y ago
  Yeah, with a 500 MB partition I cannot have both the normal and LTS kernel thanks to that, and resizing it sound like a good way to break stuff, so I'll pass for now
- adrian_b 2y ago
  There is no need for early kernel modesetting. On the systems where I have seen this happening, it is normally extremely annoying, because it may select a minuscule bitmap font on a high-resolution display. The user may need to type almost blindly the terminal command for changing the font to the biggest bitmap font provided with the Linux kernel, which for a long time had been sun12x22, but nowadays there is also a more decent ter16x32. It is better when the kernel stays in VGA mode until X is started.

forty 2y ago

Maybe try MODULES=dep in /etc/initramfs-tools/modules https://manpages.debian.org/jessie/initramfs-tools/initramfs.conf.5.en.html https://manpages.debian.org/jessie/initramfs-tools/initramfs...

dcan 2y ago

Gray text on a black background is an awful colour choice for this website

nickthegreek 2y ago
indeed. the offwhite headline color should also be set to the body text.
kgwxd 2y ago
I got black text on a white background
- nickthegreek 2y ago
  the site uses the css prefers-color-scheme to see if your system has light or dark theme selected and chooses the colors based on that.

anotherhue 2y ago

"You're gonna need a bigger boot?"

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

ohazi 2y ago

I encountered the same issue on my desktop, but ended up doing the partition surgery a little differently. First I resized /, /home, etc. for some extra space, then I moved them all forward a bit, then I resized /boot. Complicated by various layers of LVM and encryption. This took longer and in retrospect was perhaps a bit riskier, but it had the advantage of not needing to change any configuration on the actual system (since all of the partition numbers/names/uuids remained the same -- they just showed up at slightly different places with slightly different sizes). So the whole operation could be done entirely from a live/rescue environment.

Calwestjobs 2y ago

Boot partition is unnecessary, not unnecessary when something something, IT IS unnecessary EVERYWHERE EVERYTIME. and even if for some edgiest edge case you need boot partition, NO you do NOT need any graphics driver in your /boot, who said you need it there? Kernel does not need 3D acceleration for bringing you to userspace. You just blink your screen one more time, and prolong boot, there will be no other "effect" from that. Also why the literal ... do people use GRUB, gummyboot, clover... still? UEFI IS your bootloader that is whole point of having UEFI, so you do not need anything else to boot your kernel and IT IS working like that. So why are linux distributions still JUST copy pasting scripts instead of making boot properly? Same annoying nonsensical debate as with supporting of 32bit. Just do things like they are supposed to work in 21 century, period. Clear linux can boot 57 times faster then ubuntu or fedora.... JUST by not supporting intel 80486 booting process, do YOU have 486, NO. But your distribution requires you to boot like on 486 why that is ? Because nonsensical blablabla AND on old thinkpads, you can install coreboot into "BIOSFLASH" which provides similar boot experience as in UEFI, or just put linux kernel directly into flash which will be your bootloader(kexec), that way you can even emulate features (like in clover hackintosh) and install even win11 / macos on it. or do whole ("secure") measured boot on it that way... Why are we doing this nonsensical stuff? If you have spare drive, install Clear linux on it. and compare boot speed with your os of choice on same drive. I am not saying you have to use Clear Linux, just maybe try to do SOME things like they do in other distros ? (package manager in Clear linux is annoying) Focus on supporting current stuff and require itsy, tiny bit of config on OLD, not 10 year old, because that IS current (UEFI), but literally 40 year old. Most distros not even support that old system but they require you to boot like you have 40 year old system, nonsense.

yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
> Also why the literal ... do people use GRUB, gummyboot, clover... still? UEFI IS your bootloader that is whole point of having UEFI, so you do not need anything else to boot your kernel and IT IS working like that. It does work in the easy case, but UEFI is an inferior bootloader to the others. For example: If I need to live edit boot parameters with GRUB, I get to the boot menu, scroll to the relevant entry, hit a key, edit however I want, and hit a key to boot. I'm not sure if that's possible at all with pure UEFI; maybe you can get a UEFI shell and pass options to the kernel (maybe, not sure), but I don't think it lets you edit existing options. I've also heard arguments about avoiding writing to the limited flash on the motherboard by not saving configuration there that has to change.

bjourne 2y ago

I only use about 50 mb of my boot partition with refind as my boot manager. Come to think of it, why on earth do we still need boot partitions? Why can't Windows, Linux, iOS, etc coexist in the same file system?

yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
Because Windows is a bad neighbor and happily overwrites anything else.