5 ms·

Sales number are not good in germany either, but I know Elon fans have an excuse for this too. Anyway is clear that even if this numbers are not correct Tesla

Sales number are not good in germany either, but I know Elon fans have an excuse for this too. Anyway is clear that even if this numbers are not correct Tesla's image is fcked, now buying a Tesla is giving money to a nazi and an enemy (on top of the other Elon's "qualities")

rendall 2y ago
[flagged]
- jazzyjackson 2y ago
  https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/sea-lioning https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/sea-lioning
- t1E9mE7JTRjf 2y ago
  sadly it's becoming reddit here, subjectivity indistinguishable from objectivity
  - rendall 2y ago
    My very mild question got flagged.
    - mytailorisrich 2y ago
      [flagged]
    - CamperBob2 2y ago
      Because it wasn't an honest question. You have access to the same data sources as those who claim that Musk is at best Nazi-adjacent or Nazi-sympathetic. You have access to the same video (note video) of the salutes (note plural), access to the same news stories about Musk's support for far-right causes and organizations, and access to the same tweets in which Musk advocates policies, attitudes, and behaviors indistinguishable from those associated with 20th-century fascism. Obviously you disagree, but instead of saying as much, ideally using the same data sources to refute your opponents' arguments, you engaged in low-effort sealioning. Hence the flag.
      - rendall 2y ago
        The guidelines are to assume good faith. My comments are wide open for you to peruse: nowhere and never have I "sea lioned" or been dishonest. "Musk advocates policies, attitudes, and behaviors indistinguishable from those associated with 20th-century fascism." I apparently do not have access to the same data sources as those who claim that Musk is at best Nazi-adjacent or Nazi-sympathetic. Has he ever casually thrown around terms like “Lügenpresse” when talking about the media or described certain ideas or people as “degenerate” in a way that feels a little too historical? Has he talked about how “not everything the Nazis did was bad” or suggested that history might have been unfairly written by the victors? Maybe he hasn’t outright denied the Holocaust, but he’s hinted that the numbers seem questionable or that there’s more to the story than what’s commonly taught. Has he praised the “efficiency” of Nazi Germany, talked about how it was more “orderly” than today’s chaotic world, or suggested that political correctness has made it impossible to discuss certain “truths” about who really holds power? When race comes up, does he lean into the idea that societies just work better when people “stick to their own kind”? Does he complain about “globalists” or “international bankers” in a way that sounds eerily familiar, but insists it’s just about economics? And if you challenge him, does he actually reject any of this, or does he just get defensive, insisting the real issue is people being too quick to throw around words like "Nazi"? Because, if so, then yes, he's a Nazi. Has he done this? If not, maybe we should reserve the term for people who do.
        zfg 2y ago
        Yes. Musk has been making excuses for Hitler: https://www.thedailybeast.com/musk-boosts-claim-that-hitler-wasnt-to-blame-for-holocaust/ https://www.thedailybeast.com/musk-boosts-claim-that-hitler-... https://meidasnews.com/news/elon-musk-retweet-hitler-didnt-murder-millions-of-people-public-sector-workers-did https://meidasnews.com/news/elon-musk-retweet-hitler-didnt-m...
        rendall 2y ago
        Nazis claim that the Holocaust did not happen or if it did it was justified. Is that what Musk did here? It's a reprehensible thing to say, that the Holocaust was perpetrated by "public sector workers", but... > Yes. Musk has been making excuses for Hitler ... whatever it was, is not compatible with National Socialism. But you already knew that.
    - owebmaster 2y ago
      the richest man in the world decided to do nazi signs. What do you need to be convinced?
      - rendall 2y ago
        Than arguable sieg heil? Actively arguing for the extermination of Jews would be a good sign. Maybe display a swastika? An admission: "Yes, it was a sieg heil because I am a Nazi." Less than that, maybe casually drop terms like “Lügenpresse” when complaining about the media or refer to certain people or ideas as “degenerate”. He might talk about how “not everything the Nazis did was bad” or suggest that history has been unfairly written by the victors. Maybe he doesn’t outright deny the Holocaust, but he hints that the numbers don’t quite add up or that there’s more to the story than we’re told. He might admire the “efficiency” of Nazi Germany, talk about how it was more “orderly” than today’s world, or claim that political correctness has made people too afraid to acknowledge certain “truths” but somehow it always leads back to Jews, Zionists or Globalists. When the topic of race comes up, he leans into the idea that societies function best when people “stick to their own kind.” He might rant about “globalists” or “international bankers” in a way that sounds suspiciously like old anti-Semitic tropes but insist he’s just talking about economics. And if you push back or ask him to clarify, he doesn’t outright disavow anything, he just gets defensive, acts like he’s being unfairly attacked, and insists that the real problem is people being too quick to call others Nazis. Has he done anything like that?
        owebmaster 2y ago
        if you need more to believe he is a nazi, that is ok. Most of us have seen enough to get to that conclusion. edit: sorry, it took me some time to catch that you are being sarcastic. Your description of why he is a fascist was one of the most accurate I've seen.
        rendall 2y ago
        No, I was not being sarcastic. Yes, I need more than an awkward gesture that resembles a sieg heil to believe someone is a Nazi - even if I do not like them or find them reprehensible.
    - Mawr 2y ago
      No, your mildly asked question about a very charged topic got flagged. https://aulico.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/swift-a-modest-proposal-2x1pp.pdf https://aulico.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/swif...
mk89 2y ago
Sales numbers are not good, ok, but a fact is: ID.7 is until now (2025) the most sold e-car. Just in front of ID.4 and ID.5. https://www.adac.de/news/neuzulassungen-kba/ https://www.adac.de/news/neuzulassungen-kba/ Even if you don't understand German there is graph showing how many Tesla cars were bought/registered in Feb 2025.
- simion314 2y ago
  I know in EU Tesla sales are down compared to previous year while EV sales are up. We do not know for sure how much of this is Elon's comments and support of fascists and how much is other cars getting better, but if we wait more data will be available.
  - mk89 2y ago
    I think it's both. There is also a sense of "buy german cars because people are getting fired and losing jobs" etc. (=buy local) Very difficult to measure, but I wouldn't minimize it.
- milch 2y ago
  Interestingly the Tesla Model Y seems to have dropped very quickly, you can also find the year-end report for 2024 here where Model Y was number 1: https://www.adac.de/news/auto-bilanz-e-autos-2024/ https://www.adac.de/news/auto-bilanz-e-autos-2024/ If you look at the data for 2023 you can also see that Tesla sold about the same number of any of their model as VW did for the ID series (both ~60k). That seems to have stayed flat for VW in 2024 according to the table from ADAC, but Tesla overall sales dropped significantly to ~30k. If you extrapolate the February numbers they are on track to halve sales again this year, while VW is on track to sell 30k more cars than they did last year (I know extrapolation is not going to be super accurate here)

rendall 2y ago

[flagged]

jazzyjackson 2y ago
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/sea-lioning https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/sea-lioning
t1E9mE7JTRjf 2y ago
sadly it's becoming reddit here, subjectivity indistinguishable from objectivity
- rendall 2y ago
  My very mild question got flagged.
  - mytailorisrich 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - CamperBob2 2y ago
    Because it wasn't an honest question. You have access to the same data sources as those who claim that Musk is at best Nazi-adjacent or Nazi-sympathetic. You have access to the same video (note video) of the salutes (note plural), access to the same news stories about Musk's support for far-right causes and organizations, and access to the same tweets in which Musk advocates policies, attitudes, and behaviors indistinguishable from those associated with 20th-century fascism. Obviously you disagree, but instead of saying as much, ideally using the same data sources to refute your opponents' arguments, you engaged in low-effort sealioning. Hence the flag.
    - rendall 2y ago
      The guidelines are to assume good faith. My comments are wide open for you to peruse: nowhere and never have I "sea lioned" or been dishonest. "Musk advocates policies, attitudes, and behaviors indistinguishable from those associated with 20th-century fascism." I apparently do not have access to the same data sources as those who claim that Musk is at best Nazi-adjacent or Nazi-sympathetic. Has he ever casually thrown around terms like “Lügenpresse” when talking about the media or described certain ideas or people as “degenerate” in a way that feels a little too historical? Has he talked about how “not everything the Nazis did was bad” or suggested that history might have been unfairly written by the victors? Maybe he hasn’t outright denied the Holocaust, but he’s hinted that the numbers seem questionable or that there’s more to the story than what’s commonly taught. Has he praised the “efficiency” of Nazi Germany, talked about how it was more “orderly” than today’s chaotic world, or suggested that political correctness has made it impossible to discuss certain “truths” about who really holds power? When race comes up, does he lean into the idea that societies just work better when people “stick to their own kind”? Does he complain about “globalists” or “international bankers” in a way that sounds eerily familiar, but insists it’s just about economics? And if you challenge him, does he actually reject any of this, or does he just get defensive, insisting the real issue is people being too quick to throw around words like "Nazi"? Because, if so, then yes, he's a Nazi. Has he done this? If not, maybe we should reserve the term for people who do.
      - zfg 2y ago
        Yes. Musk has been making excuses for Hitler: https://www.thedailybeast.com/musk-boosts-claim-that-hitler-wasnt-to-blame-for-holocaust/ https://www.thedailybeast.com/musk-boosts-claim-that-hitler-... https://meidasnews.com/news/elon-musk-retweet-hitler-didnt-murder-millions-of-people-public-sector-workers-did https://meidasnews.com/news/elon-musk-retweet-hitler-didnt-m...
        rendall 2y ago
        Nazis claim that the Holocaust did not happen or if it did it was justified. Is that what Musk did here? It's a reprehensible thing to say, that the Holocaust was perpetrated by "public sector workers", but... > Yes. Musk has been making excuses for Hitler ... whatever it was, is not compatible with National Socialism. But you already knew that.
  - owebmaster 2y ago
    the richest man in the world decided to do nazi signs. What do you need to be convinced?
    - rendall 2y ago
      Than arguable sieg heil? Actively arguing for the extermination of Jews would be a good sign. Maybe display a swastika? An admission: "Yes, it was a sieg heil because I am a Nazi." Less than that, maybe casually drop terms like “Lügenpresse” when complaining about the media or refer to certain people or ideas as “degenerate”. He might talk about how “not everything the Nazis did was bad” or suggest that history has been unfairly written by the victors. Maybe he doesn’t outright deny the Holocaust, but he hints that the numbers don’t quite add up or that there’s more to the story than we’re told. He might admire the “efficiency” of Nazi Germany, talk about how it was more “orderly” than today’s world, or claim that political correctness has made people too afraid to acknowledge certain “truths” but somehow it always leads back to Jews, Zionists or Globalists. When the topic of race comes up, he leans into the idea that societies function best when people “stick to their own kind.” He might rant about “globalists” or “international bankers” in a way that sounds suspiciously like old anti-Semitic tropes but insist he’s just talking about economics. And if you push back or ask him to clarify, he doesn’t outright disavow anything, he just gets defensive, acts like he’s being unfairly attacked, and insists that the real problem is people being too quick to call others Nazis. Has he done anything like that?
      - owebmaster 2y ago
        if you need more to believe he is a nazi, that is ok. Most of us have seen enough to get to that conclusion. edit: sorry, it took me some time to catch that you are being sarcastic. Your description of why he is a fascist was one of the most accurate I've seen.
        rendall 2y ago
        No, I was not being sarcastic. Yes, I need more than an awkward gesture that resembles a sieg heil to believe someone is a Nazi - even if I do not like them or find them reprehensible.
  - Mawr 2y ago
    No, your mildly asked question about a very charged topic got flagged. https://aulico.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/swift-a-modest-proposal-2x1pp.pdf https://aulico.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/swif...

mk89 2y ago

Sales numbers are not good, ok, but a fact is: ID.7 is until now (2025) the most sold e-car. Just in front of ID.4 and ID.5. https://www.adac.de/news/neuzulassungen-kba/ https://www.adac.de/news/neuzulassungen-kba/ Even if you don't understand German there is graph showing how many Tesla cars were bought/registered in Feb 2025.

simion314 2y ago
I know in EU Tesla sales are down compared to previous year while EV sales are up. We do not know for sure how much of this is Elon's comments and support of fascists and how much is other cars getting better, but if we wait more data will be available.
- mk89 2y ago
  I think it's both. There is also a sense of "buy german cars because people are getting fired and losing jobs" etc. (=buy local) Very difficult to measure, but I wouldn't minimize it.
milch 2y ago
Interestingly the Tesla Model Y seems to have dropped very quickly, you can also find the year-end report for 2024 here where Model Y was number 1: https://www.adac.de/news/auto-bilanz-e-autos-2024/ https://www.adac.de/news/auto-bilanz-e-autos-2024/ If you look at the data for 2023 you can also see that Tesla sold about the same number of any of their model as VW did for the ID series (both ~60k). That seems to have stayed flat for VW in 2024 according to the table from ADAC, but Tesla overall sales dropped significantly to ~30k. If you extrapolate the February numbers they are on track to halve sales again this year, while VW is on track to sell 30k more cars than they did last year (I know extrapolation is not going to be super accurate here)