4 ms·

I also hate it. Car makers have collectively lost their mind chasing form over function (safety) the last 15 years.

toast0 2y ago
The shifter change is a form follows function thing though. The function is the system shifts into park (and engages the parking brake) automatically when the vehicle is turned off or the driver's door is opened. This is generally good for safety. But it means that either the shift lever has to be stateless, or the shift lever has to be movable by the system. It was easy for the system to move the shift lever in Knight Rider, cause it was TV; in reality, it's easier to make the shift lever stateless. The rotating knobs are pretty clever: they don't seem stateless because you have to push to move in certain directions and you hit what feels like hard stops, but if your 12v battery dies, you'll find you can twist it as much as you like and when you get 12v again, it doesn't matter how you twisted it, you'll start in Park. The other levers are more obviously stateless. Of course, it becomes harder to get into neutral when your car isn't working. And sometimes it takes a bit to figure out how to use the thing.
- aurareturn 2y ago
  I drive different cars often (rentals, friends, family) and I have no clue how to change gears initially and it takes a lot of time to learn each new car. In the past, it was always the same mostly.
- saurik 2y ago
  I really liked the Tesla virtual gear shift stalk. I used to drive old cars (such as an early-80s Cadillac) that had a real gear shift stalk, and making that stateless--with multiple pushes to change to a gear--felt quite intuitive in a reasonably-backwards-compatible manner. (Of course, Tesla has removed that stalk, and now has multiple ways to do it, all of which seem stupid.) Point being: I don't think a knob or a wheel is required or optimal to solve the problem you describe.
  - pfannkuchen 2y ago
    Multiple pushes to shift into neutral? Are there any other ones that have multiple pushes? Just wondering, I think I’ve used multiple push for neutral once ever (for an automatic car wash).
- tzs 2y ago
  > But it means that either the shift lever has to be stateless, or the shift lever has to be movable by the system Wouldn't it work to have the shift lever be stateful but overridable by the system? When you turn off the car have the system put it in "Park" regardless of the position of the shift lever. Do not allow the car to be started unless the shift lever is first moved to "Park". If you turned off the car with the shift lever in some other position you will have to move it to "Park" to enable starting. Similar for opening the driver's door when the car is not in "Park". Require moving the shift lever to "Park" then to some other setting in order to disengage the auto-Park and resume driving. I think most people would have no trouble dealing with this because most automatic transmission cars in the US already restrict starting to certain settings, typically "Park" and "Neutral".

The shifter change is a form follows function thing though. The function is the system shifts into park (and engages the parking brake) automatically when the vehicle is turned off or the driver's door is opened. This is generally good for safety. But it means that either the shift lever has to be stateless, or the shift lever has to be movable by the system. It was easy for the system to move the shift lever in Knight Rider, cause it was TV; in reality, it's easier to make the shift lever stateless. The rotating knobs are pretty clever: they don't seem stateless because you have to push to move in certain directions and you hit what feels like hard stops, but if your 12v battery dies, you'll find you can twist it as much as you like and when you get 12v again, it doesn't matter how you twisted it, you'll start in Park. The other levers are more obviously stateless. Of course, it becomes harder to get into neutral when your car isn't working. And sometimes it takes a bit to figure out how to use the thing.

aurareturn 2y ago
I drive different cars often (rentals, friends, family) and I have no clue how to change gears initially and it takes a lot of time to learn each new car. In the past, it was always the same mostly.
saurik 2y ago
I really liked the Tesla virtual gear shift stalk. I used to drive old cars (such as an early-80s Cadillac) that had a real gear shift stalk, and making that stateless--with multiple pushes to change to a gear--felt quite intuitive in a reasonably-backwards-compatible manner. (Of course, Tesla has removed that stalk, and now has multiple ways to do it, all of which seem stupid.) Point being: I don't think a knob or a wheel is required or optimal to solve the problem you describe.
- pfannkuchen 2y ago
  Multiple pushes to shift into neutral? Are there any other ones that have multiple pushes? Just wondering, I think I’ve used multiple push for neutral once ever (for an automatic car wash).
tzs 2y ago
> But it means that either the shift lever has to be stateless, or the shift lever has to be movable by the system Wouldn't it work to have the shift lever be stateful but overridable by the system? When you turn off the car have the system put it in "Park" regardless of the position of the shift lever. Do not allow the car to be started unless the shift lever is first moved to "Park". If you turned off the car with the shift lever in some other position you will have to move it to "Park" to enable starting. Similar for opening the driver's door when the car is not in "Park". Require moving the shift lever to "Park" then to some other setting in order to disengage the auto-Park and resume driving. I think most people would have no trouble dealing with this because most automatic transmission cars in the US already restrict starting to certain settings, typically "Park" and "Neutral".