36 ms·

Using a graphics tablet as a programming tool (2018)

88 points by akkartik 2y ago

CyberDildonics 2y ago
This article is basically "I write notes with my tablet instead of using paper".
- Swenrekcah 2y ago
  Well, they’re also using software that makes the tablet capable of useful things that paper isn’t.
  - CyberDildonics 2y ago
    So what, it doesn't have any real connection to programming.
    - sarlalian 2y ago
      You don't ever write out diagrams for your software development? Or diagram workflows?
hmottestad 2y ago
Anyone know any good infinite canvas app for the iPad? I’ve used Goodnotes for years, but it doesn’t have an infinite canvas unfortunately. Otherwise it’s an amazing app and nothing really comes close. I’ve been trying Apple Freeform as an alternative, but it’s truly terrible in comparison.
- mattegan 2y ago
  Concepts is nice. Subscription model IIRC but I’ve been happy with it. Nice options for different papers, can cut and paste/transform objects. Has multiple layers.
  - bryanhogan 2y ago
    Have also been using Concepts since I found it to be the best whiteboard app for me on Android. But last time I checked they had a one-time puchase option available? Did they change that?
- mschnell 2y ago
  Miro works great, I really like the UI
  - bipson 2y ago
    Unfortunately Miro really is not too great with a Wacom on Desktop:(
- pizza 2y ago
  Just found out today that you can edit the page template in GoodNotes so that it's 5000pt x 5000pt, which is much, much larger than the default - at least for me that's close enough to having an infinite canvas
- wodenokoto 2y ago
  How well does excalidraw work on an iPad? It’s my go to for whiteboarding anything
- hasperdi 2y ago
  Try Nebo. I've tried them all, including Concepts. Concepts was great but it requires subscription and it gets slower when you have a very large drawing. I tried large Goodnotes paper too, but it was a bit clunky.Nebo was good, but then I kind of stopped doing large notes.
bipson 2y ago
I can totally relate to the premise of the blog post. Thinking (for most people) benefits from some sort of free form scribbling and drawing to make sense of it, and realize what you're missing. At least for me it makes a huge difference. I remember reading a tip more than a decade ago from a senior developer, that you should always have pen and paper next to your keyboard, to take notes, visualize problems, keep notes of where you are. Most of the thinking happens there. When I'm working on bigger things alone, it helps me keep track or the bigger picture, how to keep separation of concern und understand where my abstractions started leaking. Moving that pen and paper to digital unfortunately was never low-barrier for me. I thought about acquiring a reMarkable for that purpose, but it isn't perfect either. I used excalidraw in the past, but it also does not integrate too well with my environment. Now, with everyone being remote I would really love to have something that not only replaces my own scribbling and conceptualizing, but also serves as "whiteboard" for collaboration. I clearly clearly miss the whiteboard when discussing abstract things/ideas/problems with peers. The app mentioned in the post seems a little abandoned unfortunately. Does someone out there use something similar?
- ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
  I’ve used OmniGraffle for years on Mac. Notes Plus is good on an iPad. Recently, Apple has made playgrounds more useful on iPads, so I can now save something that I’m working on, and play with it on the road. My default issue tracking system is a sticky note pad on the desk. I write a brief description of the problem/feature, and stick it on the desk, to the left of the keyboard. When I am working on it, I move it above the keyboard. When I fix/implement it, I move it to the right. When I’m done testing, it goes in the trash. I use code and checkin comments for posterity. I’ll also use GitHub Issues. They allow me to enter bug reports from my phone or pad, and associate checkins with issues.
- sinfulprogeny 2y ago
  I have an ipad pro from 2015, an apple pencil 1, and a screen protector that gives it a bit more friction. It's pretty good for the most part, but since it's my only apple product, it doesn't integrate well with anything else I use. OneNote seems to work on multiple platforms but I never got into it. I mostly use goodnotes, and they seem to have released apps for web and non-apple stuff (finally). When I used it the most, the only export I had was as PDFs to Dropbox, which was fine enough but removed any possibility of editing outside of the ipad.
leephillips 2y ago
Anything similar for Linux? The Milton github page says that the source might possibly compile on Linux but is pessimistic.
- dcminter 2y ago
  Are you sure? It seemed to say that it would manually compile, but that the author hadn't automated it because they didn't know CMake well enough. (I have time to kill at an airport later so I might try it)
  - dcminter 2y ago
    Ok, can confirm that on Ubuntu 24.04.2 it builds (with a handful of deprecation warnings) and runs ok. I didn't do more than a smoke-test on running it though. The README says: On 2021-02-27 a successful build for Linux can be done with these steps: [... (omitted the actual steps) ...] And if successful, you should have an executable called "Milton" that runs. I did not make this work automatically with CMake, because I don't know CMake. That doesn't look to have changed since 2022.
- abetusk 2y ago
  I just compiled it (Ubuntu 22.04.5) and have it working. There's an updated section in the README that gives steps for compilation under Linux.
  - leephillips 2y ago
    Sounds great and thank you, but I don’t see anything new in the README for Milton on github.
    - abetusk 2y ago
      It's not new, it just says "On 2021-02-27 a successful build for Linux can be done with these steps" [0]. I followed the steps and had a compiled and working version within a couple minutes (after a compile error and fixing by installing libgtk2.0-dev). [0] https://github.com/serge-rgb/milton?tab=readme-ov-file#linux-and-macos https://github.com/serge-rgb/milton?tab=readme-ov-file#linux...
WillAdams 2y ago
A nascent tool which looks to further explore this space is being developed by the guy who made Nodezator https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42274399 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42274399 Kennedy Richard: https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=KennedyRichard https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=KennedyRichard https://github.com/IndieSmiths/myappmaker-sdd https://github.com/IndieSmiths/myappmaker-sdd The current version just allows drawing to make labels and checkboxes --- nothing more (but if one wanted to mock up a design which just needed those elements, it's a start)
curtisszmania 2y ago
[dead]
oofoe 2y ago
I've been doing this for a long time, ever since I was able to score a used Wacom Cintiq. I would recommend anything with a screen (Cintiq, Huion, iPad, etc.) over a plain graphics tablet if you can -- it makes things more tactile and immediate. I've (mis)used a number of drawing apps for programming design, including Milton (as in the article), Foundry Mischief, AutoDesk Sketchbook Pro, WonderUnit Storyboarder, Blender, Leonardo, Krita and Xournal++. Mischief, Sketchbook and Storyboarder are either discontinued or no longer under active development. Mischief had a really nice infinite canvas and some nice features for doing presentations across it. You can still get an old Windows version if you look in the... right places. But it's a dead end. Sketchbook has a lot of nice features, but seems like it's all but abandoned. It /is/ available on mobile. They used to have a nice blog where they featured a lot of great artists. Storyboarder is cross-platform and source is available, but packages can't seem to be downloaded any more. The Blender grease pencil tool just gets better and better and works well with tablets. I've used it to do rough sketches and user-interface mockups. Colour selection was a bit clumsy last time I tried, but I think it's been improved since. I think you could say it has an "effectively infinite" canvas. Scriptable, 3D objects are first class. Leonardo is Windows-only, but has pretty nice raster-based infinite canvas. Very responsive and quick. Very easy to do constrained lines and shapes, which can be useful for programming ideation. It's my current go-to, I'm not sure what I'm going to do when I switch to Linux once Win10 is unsupported. Maybe it will run on Wine... Krita is really more of a traditional paint program, but I've still used it for notes and designs even though no infinite canvas. It has a "Comics Manager" bolt on that can be used as a sort of notebook. Scriptable. Xournal++ is a bit of a strange beast. It's intended to be more of a "notebook" application. No infinite canvas, but as many "pages" as you like. It deals with LaTeX, PDF and also pressure-sensitive tablet sketching. It has voice recording and markup features. It's also cross-platform -- I've used on Windows and Linux, and if I can't take Leonardo with me it's probably going to be my new main app. Also -- nice to use when you want to sign a PDF with a "real" signature. Not including things like GraphViz, PlantUML, etc. -- all the apps above are very responsive and support pressure-sensitive sketching, which I think is vital for ideation and exploration.
- tcrenshaw 2y ago
  Check out rnote. It's similar to xournal++ but has an infinite canvas and a slightly nicer UI, assuming you're into gtk style apps. I don't know how responsive it is comparatively, I've just been doing research ahead of getting a tablet. https://github.com/flxzt/rnote https://github.com/flxzt/rnote
pjmlp 2y ago
What I am missing, and would buy as an app, is the ability to code on an Android tablet with pen. Regardless of the programming language, writing code as I do on paper, with the difference it is straight into the editor window. No side panel, where I have to write one word after the other with pauses and correction, or that some apps (looking at you Pydroid) for whatever reason disable. Straight like Apple's math demo, to make it more precise. This is the kind of stuff I would like AI algorithms to improve, instead of taking people's work away.
- nileshtrivedi 2y ago
  Something like this? https://youtu.be/QeI61YmSnTA https://youtu.be/QeI61YmSnTA
user68858788 2y ago
I’m going to try this!

88 points by akkartik 2y ago

CyberDildonics 2y ago

This article is basically "I write notes with my tablet instead of using paper".

Swenrekcah 2y ago
Well, they’re also using software that makes the tablet capable of useful things that paper isn’t.
- CyberDildonics 2y ago
  So what, it doesn't have any real connection to programming.
  - sarlalian 2y ago
    You don't ever write out diagrams for your software development? Or diagram workflows?

hmottestad 2y ago

Anyone know any good infinite canvas app for the iPad? I’ve used Goodnotes for years, but it doesn’t have an infinite canvas unfortunately. Otherwise it’s an amazing app and nothing really comes close. I’ve been trying Apple Freeform as an alternative, but it’s truly terrible in comparison.

mattegan 2y ago
Concepts is nice. Subscription model IIRC but I’ve been happy with it. Nice options for different papers, can cut and paste/transform objects. Has multiple layers.
- bryanhogan 2y ago
  Have also been using Concepts since I found it to be the best whiteboard app for me on Android. But last time I checked they had a one-time puchase option available? Did they change that?
mschnell 2y ago
Miro works great, I really like the UI
- bipson 2y ago
  Unfortunately Miro really is not too great with a Wacom on Desktop:(
pizza 2y ago
Just found out today that you can edit the page template in GoodNotes so that it's 5000pt x 5000pt, which is much, much larger than the default - at least for me that's close enough to having an infinite canvas
wodenokoto 2y ago
How well does excalidraw work on an iPad? It’s my go to for whiteboarding anything
hasperdi 2y ago
Try Nebo. I've tried them all, including Concepts. Concepts was great but it requires subscription and it gets slower when you have a very large drawing. I tried large Goodnotes paper too, but it was a bit clunky.Nebo was good, but then I kind of stopped doing large notes.

bipson 2y ago

I can totally relate to the premise of the blog post. Thinking (for most people) benefits from some sort of free form scribbling and drawing to make sense of it, and realize what you're missing. At least for me it makes a huge difference. I remember reading a tip more than a decade ago from a senior developer, that you should always have pen and paper next to your keyboard, to take notes, visualize problems, keep notes of where you are. Most of the thinking happens there. When I'm working on bigger things alone, it helps me keep track or the bigger picture, how to keep separation of concern und understand where my abstractions started leaking. Moving that pen and paper to digital unfortunately was never low-barrier for me. I thought about acquiring a reMarkable for that purpose, but it isn't perfect either. I used excalidraw in the past, but it also does not integrate too well with my environment. Now, with everyone being remote I would really love to have something that not only replaces my own scribbling and conceptualizing, but also serves as "whiteboard" for collaboration. I clearly clearly miss the whiteboard when discussing abstract things/ideas/problems with peers. The app mentioned in the post seems a little abandoned unfortunately. Does someone out there use something similar?

ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
I’ve used OmniGraffle for years on Mac. Notes Plus is good on an iPad. Recently, Apple has made playgrounds more useful on iPads, so I can now save something that I’m working on, and play with it on the road. My default issue tracking system is a sticky note pad on the desk. I write a brief description of the problem/feature, and stick it on the desk, to the left of the keyboard. When I am working on it, I move it above the keyboard. When I fix/implement it, I move it to the right. When I’m done testing, it goes in the trash. I use code and checkin comments for posterity. I’ll also use GitHub Issues. They allow me to enter bug reports from my phone or pad, and associate checkins with issues.
sinfulprogeny 2y ago
I have an ipad pro from 2015, an apple pencil 1, and a screen protector that gives it a bit more friction. It's pretty good for the most part, but since it's my only apple product, it doesn't integrate well with anything else I use. OneNote seems to work on multiple platforms but I never got into it. I mostly use goodnotes, and they seem to have released apps for web and non-apple stuff (finally). When I used it the most, the only export I had was as PDFs to Dropbox, which was fine enough but removed any possibility of editing outside of the ipad.

leephillips 2y ago

Anything similar for Linux? The Milton github page says that the source might possibly compile on Linux but is pessimistic.

dcminter 2y ago
Are you sure? It seemed to say that it would manually compile, but that the author hadn't automated it because they didn't know CMake well enough. (I have time to kill at an airport later so I might try it)
- dcminter 2y ago
  Ok, can confirm that on Ubuntu 24.04.2 it builds (with a handful of deprecation warnings) and runs ok. I didn't do more than a smoke-test on running it though. The README says: On 2021-02-27 a successful build for Linux can be done with these steps: [... (omitted the actual steps) ...] And if successful, you should have an executable called "Milton" that runs. I did not make this work automatically with CMake, because I don't know CMake. That doesn't look to have changed since 2022.
abetusk 2y ago
I just compiled it (Ubuntu 22.04.5) and have it working. There's an updated section in the README that gives steps for compilation under Linux.
- leephillips 2y ago
  Sounds great and thank you, but I don’t see anything new in the README for Milton on github.
  - abetusk 2y ago
    It's not new, it just says "On 2021-02-27 a successful build for Linux can be done with these steps" [0]. I followed the steps and had a compiled and working version within a couple minutes (after a compile error and fixing by installing libgtk2.0-dev). [0] https://github.com/serge-rgb/milton?tab=readme-ov-file#linux-and-macos https://github.com/serge-rgb/milton?tab=readme-ov-file#linux...

WillAdams 2y ago

A nascent tool which looks to further explore this space is being developed by the guy who made Nodezator https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42274399 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42274399 Kennedy Richard: https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=KennedyRichard https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=KennedyRichard https://github.com/IndieSmiths/myappmaker-sdd https://github.com/IndieSmiths/myappmaker-sdd The current version just allows drawing to make labels and checkboxes --- nothing more (but if one wanted to mock up a design which just needed those elements, it's a start)

curtisszmania 2y ago

[dead]

oofoe 2y ago

I've been doing this for a long time, ever since I was able to score a used Wacom Cintiq. I would recommend anything with a screen (Cintiq, Huion, iPad, etc.) over a plain graphics tablet if you can -- it makes things more tactile and immediate. I've (mis)used a number of drawing apps for programming design, including Milton (as in the article), Foundry Mischief, AutoDesk Sketchbook Pro, WonderUnit Storyboarder, Blender, Leonardo, Krita and Xournal++. Mischief, Sketchbook and Storyboarder are either discontinued or no longer under active development. Mischief had a really nice infinite canvas and some nice features for doing presentations across it. You can still get an old Windows version if you look in the... right places. But it's a dead end. Sketchbook has a lot of nice features, but seems like it's all but abandoned. It /is/ available on mobile. They used to have a nice blog where they featured a lot of great artists. Storyboarder is cross-platform and source is available, but packages can't seem to be downloaded any more. The Blender grease pencil tool just gets better and better and works well with tablets. I've used it to do rough sketches and user-interface mockups. Colour selection was a bit clumsy last time I tried, but I think it's been improved since. I think you could say it has an "effectively infinite" canvas. Scriptable, 3D objects are first class. Leonardo is Windows-only, but has pretty nice raster-based infinite canvas. Very responsive and quick. Very easy to do constrained lines and shapes, which can be useful for programming ideation. It's my current go-to, I'm not sure what I'm going to do when I switch to Linux once Win10 is unsupported. Maybe it will run on Wine... Krita is really more of a traditional paint program, but I've still used it for notes and designs even though no infinite canvas. It has a "Comics Manager" bolt on that can be used as a sort of notebook. Scriptable. Xournal++ is a bit of a strange beast. It's intended to be more of a "notebook" application. No infinite canvas, but as many "pages" as you like. It deals with LaTeX, PDF and also pressure-sensitive tablet sketching. It has voice recording and markup features. It's also cross-platform -- I've used on Windows and Linux, and if I can't take Leonardo with me it's probably going to be my new main app. Also -- nice to use when you want to sign a PDF with a "real" signature. Not including things like GraphViz, PlantUML, etc. -- all the apps above are very responsive and support pressure-sensitive sketching, which I think is vital for ideation and exploration.

tcrenshaw 2y ago
Check out rnote. It's similar to xournal++ but has an infinite canvas and a slightly nicer UI, assuming you're into gtk style apps. I don't know how responsive it is comparatively, I've just been doing research ahead of getting a tablet. https://github.com/flxzt/rnote https://github.com/flxzt/rnote

pjmlp 2y ago

What I am missing, and would buy as an app, is the ability to code on an Android tablet with pen. Regardless of the programming language, writing code as I do on paper, with the difference it is straight into the editor window. No side panel, where I have to write one word after the other with pauses and correction, or that some apps (looking at you Pydroid) for whatever reason disable. Straight like Apple's math demo, to make it more precise. This is the kind of stuff I would like AI algorithms to improve, instead of taking people's work away.

nileshtrivedi 2y ago
Something like this? https://youtu.be/QeI61YmSnTA https://youtu.be/QeI61YmSnTA

user68858788 2y ago

I’m going to try this!