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Once upon a time, I worked on behalf of a few luxury goods makers, tracking down counterfeit versions of their items, and getting the obvious and less obvious f

Once upon a time, I worked on behalf of a few luxury goods makers, tracking down counterfeit versions of their items, and getting the obvious and less obvious fakes removed before anyone could waste money (and their perception of the brand) on them. A few times, I would be invited to company HQ and introduced to the product, have the stitching and design details explained to me, a lay humble scruffy programmer. I can still spot a quality handbag from miles away because of it. The work itself was _fascinating_ to me, and spotting fakes was... obvious but only once you knew _why_ it was obvious. A couple of examples: * (easiest) Does brand X make phone covers? Well, probably not because that would make them look cheap and accessible to all, and that's _very much not_ the point of being a luxury goods house. * (... tricker) Are there _any_ loose stitches visible, or imperfections of any kind? If I had been thinking logically, this wouldn't be an issue. But, like the buyers, I hadn't been, and I hadn't realised that -of course- luxury goods are hand checked by many people, many times over, because... again, that's the whole point of being a luxury goods house. While there was plenty to learn about mismatched parts - plus the joy of independent designers creating new and sometimes quite brilliantly designed new items (always a shame, some of them knew the brand styles staggeringly well) - looking at the zips that match a leather which match so-and-so design element, the examples above covered the majority of counterfeit items by far. Can't imagine it's changed that much in the meantime.

6stringmerc 2y ago
I’m not an expert but it’s incredible with guitars as well - the craftsmanship when comparing something off an assembly line versus a true luthier crafted instrument. There are visual clues easy to spot like the tuning pegs, but upon closer inspection of the fretboards the material used for inlays is an indication, and then the intricacy of fitment. With something like an acoustic guitar - Pimentel versus an off the rack Breedlove, the sound will be staggeringly different and you’ll understand where the extra $9,000 came from. There are of course forgeries in music instruments of high value - violins - and the ugly reality that Chibsons exist and are pieces of shit because they’re produced by a culture with serious fucking problems relating to creativity and freedom of expression and individuality.
- _tik_ 2y ago
  There is a market for Chibsons—not everyone is willing to spend on expensive instruments. As a beginner, I’m too much of a cheapskate to drop $9,000 on a musical instrument. I can’t even play properly or distinguish the right tones yet. I agree with you that, at my current skill level, my ability to express creativity and individuality is limited. But I’m okay with that. For now, I just want to enjoy learning to play the music I love. I’ll consider upgrading once my skills improve. I am not learning guitar.
  - bsder 2y ago
    > As a beginner, I’m too much of a cheapskate to drop $9,000 on a musical instrument. There is a wide range of choices before you reach $9K. If I'm being honest, $9K for an electric is absurd. For beginners at guitar, this is a great time. Thanks to CNC machines, guitars at low price points are ridiculously consistent. Yes, they're cheap, but they are precisely cheap. You pretty much get exactly the same level of guitar at the price point no matter whether it was manufactured 6 months ago, today, or 6 months from now. The downside is that you don't find the bargain "stage queen" where all the stars lined up that day to make a much better guitar than it should have been. The upside is that you get way, way, way fewer absolute dogs that are unsalvageable.
  - 6stringmerc 2y ago
    Your logic is terrible and Chibsons are terrible instruments - usually they are unplayable. They are SHIT simply built for making a cheap revenue through infringement. A Korean made Agile for $300 is an actually playable instrument and not garbage. You don’t play so I don’t expect you to understand. Let’s just put it in a method you can understand - Chibson is the equivalent of somebody using your picture and LinkedIn profile to apply and get hired for a job. Do you extend your excuses to that scenario?
- 331c8c71 2y ago
  > Pimentel versus an off the rack Breedlove, the sound will be staggeringly Not sure about acoustic guitars specifically but for electrics there's plenty of evidence that the magic is mostly in the hands (and the brains) of the player. Plenty of yt videos on that subject blind trials and stuff as well as stars playing regular or cheap kits.
Daub 2y ago
The most difficult fakes are those illicitly made by the same factory that makes the genuine product (under license). In that sense, they are not even fakes but the license holder doesn’t see any of the profit.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- mootothemax 2y ago
  Yeah that’s a fun one to solve. On the plus side, the factory faces a problem as the consequences of being caught are severe. They’ll often take mitigating action to try and obfuscate the source, such as using slightly different materials so eg leather stock can’t be traced. When I was in the industry, it’d be unusual for a factory to produce the exact same thing without _any_ attempt to hide. If you’ve ever seen a dvd with the various identifiers sanded off, now you know why :)

6stringmerc 2y ago

I’m not an expert but it’s incredible with guitars as well - the craftsmanship when comparing something off an assembly line versus a true luthier crafted instrument. There are visual clues easy to spot like the tuning pegs, but upon closer inspection of the fretboards the material used for inlays is an indication, and then the intricacy of fitment. With something like an acoustic guitar - Pimentel versus an off the rack Breedlove, the sound will be staggeringly different and you’ll understand where the extra $9,000 came from. There are of course forgeries in music instruments of high value - violins - and the ugly reality that Chibsons exist and are pieces of shit because they’re produced by a culture with serious fucking problems relating to creativity and freedom of expression and individuality.

_tik_ 2y ago
There is a market for Chibsons—not everyone is willing to spend on expensive instruments. As a beginner, I’m too much of a cheapskate to drop $9,000 on a musical instrument. I can’t even play properly or distinguish the right tones yet. I agree with you that, at my current skill level, my ability to express creativity and individuality is limited. But I’m okay with that. For now, I just want to enjoy learning to play the music I love. I’ll consider upgrading once my skills improve. I am not learning guitar.
- bsder 2y ago
  > As a beginner, I’m too much of a cheapskate to drop $9,000 on a musical instrument. There is a wide range of choices before you reach $9K. If I'm being honest, $9K for an electric is absurd. For beginners at guitar, this is a great time. Thanks to CNC machines, guitars at low price points are ridiculously consistent. Yes, they're cheap, but they are precisely cheap. You pretty much get exactly the same level of guitar at the price point no matter whether it was manufactured 6 months ago, today, or 6 months from now. The downside is that you don't find the bargain "stage queen" where all the stars lined up that day to make a much better guitar than it should have been. The upside is that you get way, way, way fewer absolute dogs that are unsalvageable.
- 6stringmerc 2y ago
  Your logic is terrible and Chibsons are terrible instruments - usually they are unplayable. They are SHIT simply built for making a cheap revenue through infringement. A Korean made Agile for $300 is an actually playable instrument and not garbage. You don’t play so I don’t expect you to understand. Let’s just put it in a method you can understand - Chibson is the equivalent of somebody using your picture and LinkedIn profile to apply and get hired for a job. Do you extend your excuses to that scenario?
331c8c71 2y ago
> Pimentel versus an off the rack Breedlove, the sound will be staggeringly Not sure about acoustic guitars specifically but for electrics there's plenty of evidence that the magic is mostly in the hands (and the brains) of the player. Plenty of yt videos on that subject blind trials and stuff as well as stars playing regular or cheap kits.

Daub 2y ago

The most difficult fakes are those illicitly made by the same factory that makes the genuine product (under license). In that sense, they are not even fakes but the license holder doesn’t see any of the profit.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
mootothemax 2y ago
Yeah that’s a fun one to solve. On the plus side, the factory faces a problem as the consequences of being caught are severe. They’ll often take mitigating action to try and obfuscate the source, such as using slightly different materials so eg leather stock can’t be traced. When I was in the industry, it’d be unusual for a factory to produce the exact same thing without _any_ attempt to hide. If you’ve ever seen a dvd with the various identifiers sanded off, now you know why :)