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Please provide citations for when the Obama or Biden administrations initiated criminal prosecutions of political opponents without evidence.

roenxi 2y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossfire_Hurricane_(FBI_investigation) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossfire_Hurricane_(FBI_inves... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI_search_of_Mar-a-Lago https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI_search_of_Mar-a-Lago If we can pretend those are being done in good faith then we can pretend that the current Trump admin are being honest and reasonable too.
- FireBeyond 2y ago
  What exactly did the FBI search of Mar-a-Lago find? It was believed that Trump had improperly stored classified documents there... ... and he had. And was lying about it too. So yeah, how was that not good faith? "These documents are missing. They were last in the possession of the President. He's on video seen with staffers loading up similar documents to take to Florida. We apply for a search warrant when he denies what's on video, a judge grants it, and we go look, and find exactly those documents." You: "Witch hunt! Bad faith witch hunt!"
  - roenxi 2y ago
    Obama famously looked the other way when asked whether the war crimes of the Bush administration were going to be investigated. Trump was impeached for looking in to Biden's Ukraine links and it turned out that the Biden family needed multiple pardons for it although they were very generally worded so they didn't ever admit what exactly they were up to. All these politicians are committing things that are crimes. Raiding your opponents house because you think they're improperly storing documents is blatant intimidation and harassment and the follow up was absolutely criminal prosecutions of political opponents without justification. The only silver lining is the US public had the rational response and supported Trump against the bullying.
    - ipython 2y ago
      Trump was impeached not because of “biden’s ukraine links” but was impeached (the first time) because trump withheld aid from Ukraine on a phone call - contingent on Ukraine digging up dirt on a political opponent. Thats tinpot dictator stuff. The FBI raided Mar-a-lago as a last resort. He was asked to return classified documents and lied about it. Then it was shown he ordered others to move the documents so as to obstruct the investigation. As pointed out before. What should happen? If I would do that I would be in jail, rightly so.
    - FireBeyond 2y ago
      And your first mistake is assuming I'm okay with a Democrat administration overlooking potential criminal actions. That's a lot of the times the difference. Many left leaning people will say "and they should be prosecuted too" which is almost ... shocking ... to some on the other side (and not in part because they really see it as 'sides'). > Raiding your opponents house because you think they're improperly storing documents is blatant intimidation Horseshit. You act as though it's some wild cockeyed theory. There are audit trails for classified documents. The President's office was the last who had them. He and his staffers were shown on national fucking TV carrying boxes that looked identical onto a plane and into his private residence. And then he lied about it, and attempted to conceal evidence and obstruct justice. Your spin is disingenous at best. "Bullying". And if you think the public mostly thought Trump was being unfairly "bullied" and intimated over those documents, then that says something about your perspective. Also for complete clarity, since Biden had a very similar thing happen with the improper storing of documents: He shouldn't be doing that either. Why didn't it rise to the same level? Maybe because he didn't actively try to sabotage an investigation into it. But I don't think it should have been ignored because "well, -he- has a '(D)' after his name".
      - roenxi 2y ago
        > Why didn't it rise to the same level? Maybe because he didn't actively try to sabotage an investigation into it. That is tantamount to saying the issue isn't the mis-storing of classified documents, but that Biden didn't feel like threatened by an investigation from the Biden administration. Colour me shocked. That and the lawfare the Democrats were engaging in through the last election cycle was blatant process abuse and it was a relief that the attacks failed in such spectacular fashion. This is a vocal mob of activists looking for ways to get Trump. If they want to do that by proposing general-purpose anti-corruption improvements and limitations on government then sure, that might be a productive path forward. But in practice it is going to be a bunch of measures that only target Trump because these people aren't worried about the abuse of power, in fact they were cool with it when it targeted their enemies. It has been an ongoing issue for at least the 20 years; since the Patriot act came into action. Probably longer. It hasn't suddenly sprung up because Trump won a second election with a bigger margin than last time. We know for a fact that the people who are serious about it have been unable to get much purchase in the political world.
- apical_dendrite 2y ago
  FBI search of Mar-a-Lago???? Seriously??? There was plenty of evidence of criminal behavior. Read the wikipedia article that you yourself linked.

roenxi 2y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossfire_Hurricane_(FBI_investigation) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossfire_Hurricane_(FBI_inves... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI_search_of_Mar-a-Lago https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI_search_of_Mar-a-Lago If we can pretend those are being done in good faith then we can pretend that the current Trump admin are being honest and reasonable too.

FireBeyond 2y ago
What exactly did the FBI search of Mar-a-Lago find? It was believed that Trump had improperly stored classified documents there... ... and he had. And was lying about it too. So yeah, how was that not good faith? "These documents are missing. They were last in the possession of the President. He's on video seen with staffers loading up similar documents to take to Florida. We apply for a search warrant when he denies what's on video, a judge grants it, and we go look, and find exactly those documents." You: "Witch hunt! Bad faith witch hunt!"
- roenxi 2y ago
  Obama famously looked the other way when asked whether the war crimes of the Bush administration were going to be investigated. Trump was impeached for looking in to Biden's Ukraine links and it turned out that the Biden family needed multiple pardons for it although they were very generally worded so they didn't ever admit what exactly they were up to. All these politicians are committing things that are crimes. Raiding your opponents house because you think they're improperly storing documents is blatant intimidation and harassment and the follow up was absolutely criminal prosecutions of political opponents without justification. The only silver lining is the US public had the rational response and supported Trump against the bullying.
  - ipython 2y ago
    Trump was impeached not because of “biden’s ukraine links” but was impeached (the first time) because trump withheld aid from Ukraine on a phone call - contingent on Ukraine digging up dirt on a political opponent. Thats tinpot dictator stuff. The FBI raided Mar-a-lago as a last resort. He was asked to return classified documents and lied about it. Then it was shown he ordered others to move the documents so as to obstruct the investigation. As pointed out before. What should happen? If I would do that I would be in jail, rightly so.
  - FireBeyond 2y ago
    And your first mistake is assuming I'm okay with a Democrat administration overlooking potential criminal actions. That's a lot of the times the difference. Many left leaning people will say "and they should be prosecuted too" which is almost ... shocking ... to some on the other side (and not in part because they really see it as 'sides'). > Raiding your opponents house because you think they're improperly storing documents is blatant intimidation Horseshit. You act as though it's some wild cockeyed theory. There are audit trails for classified documents. The President's office was the last who had them. He and his staffers were shown on national fucking TV carrying boxes that looked identical onto a plane and into his private residence. And then he lied about it, and attempted to conceal evidence and obstruct justice. Your spin is disingenous at best. "Bullying". And if you think the public mostly thought Trump was being unfairly "bullied" and intimated over those documents, then that says something about your perspective. Also for complete clarity, since Biden had a very similar thing happen with the improper storing of documents: He shouldn't be doing that either. Why didn't it rise to the same level? Maybe because he didn't actively try to sabotage an investigation into it. But I don't think it should have been ignored because "well, -he- has a '(D)' after his name".
    - roenxi 2y ago
      > Why didn't it rise to the same level? Maybe because he didn't actively try to sabotage an investigation into it. That is tantamount to saying the issue isn't the mis-storing of classified documents, but that Biden didn't feel like threatened by an investigation from the Biden administration. Colour me shocked. That and the lawfare the Democrats were engaging in through the last election cycle was blatant process abuse and it was a relief that the attacks failed in such spectacular fashion. This is a vocal mob of activists looking for ways to get Trump. If they want to do that by proposing general-purpose anti-corruption improvements and limitations on government then sure, that might be a productive path forward. But in practice it is going to be a bunch of measures that only target Trump because these people aren't worried about the abuse of power, in fact they were cool with it when it targeted their enemies. It has been an ongoing issue for at least the 20 years; since the Patriot act came into action. Probably longer. It hasn't suddenly sprung up because Trump won a second election with a bigger margin than last time. We know for a fact that the people who are serious about it have been unable to get much purchase in the political world.
apical_dendrite 2y ago
FBI search of Mar-a-Lago???? Seriously??? There was plenty of evidence of criminal behavior. Read the wikipedia article that you yourself linked.