2 ms·

> All these smart speakers can turn that on anytime processing and storing such a vast amount of data becomes viable. Not surprised. I don’t use any of these sm

> All these smart speakers can turn that on anytime processing and storing such a vast amount of data becomes viable. Not surprised. I don’t use any of these smart devices for exactly this reason. The same is true for smart phones, yet almost nobody has an issue with those. Not only could they listen at any time (albeit with lower quality), I put extremely personal information into my phone via the screen keyboard all the time. How is trusting the manufacturer to not transfer that information any more reasonable than trusting Amazon to not spy on me when they say they don't?

rednafi 2y ago
Touche
ranger_danger 2y ago
> How is trusting the manufacturer to not transfer that information any more reasonable than trusting Amazon to not spy on me when they say they don't? Probably because phone manufacturers have historically not done things as bad as Amazon has privacy-wise. But you're right. They could.
jchw 2y ago
> The same is true for smart phones, yet almost nobody has an issue with those. Let me just be the first to say I absolutely have an issue with smartphones. (edit: Of course, I could very well count in the 'almost nobody' category, but the same might well be true in general for people concerned about smart devices.)
- bigiain 2y ago
  I also absolutely have an issue with smartphones and privacy. But I'm also a pragmatist. In my opinion Apple, while not even approaching being "perfect", are most likely to be the least worst of all practical options. 5 or 10 years back, I would have ranked Google's Pixel phones in 2nd, but not so much these days, if they're still 2nd they're a long long way back from 1st and only second because every other choice is so so bad. I used to buy Samsung phones back in the Galaxy S2 up to Galaxy S6 era, but they did so many bad-for-security things I no longer trust them with any of my data. I don't trust any of the Chinese brand at all. Although I do have a few super inexpensive Chinese Android tablets that get used on a non internet connected subnet as home automation controllers. Even if they do manage to phone home, the only sensitive data they have is the private subnet wifi password and the always-on VPN endpoint through the router. I like to think (but cannot prove) that Chinese manufacturing hasn't managed to plant working backdoors in every iPhone they build, and that if they have targetted supply chain attacks for individual or small batches of devices that I'm not interesting enough to burn one of those on. I do sometimes wonder whether Jamal Khashoggi thought that too though... I've "settled" with the level of security I believe my iPhone gives me. Partly because I long ago made peace with the fact that if a nation state security agency even became "interested" in my, I've already lost the game. I've given up trying to protect myself against the NSA or Mossad or the MSS or the FSB, or even "second tier" security agencies like my local ASIS. I do what I can to make it hard for adversaries like organised crime, scammers, script kiddies, and surveillance capitalists, and I'd like to think I've done enough that law enforcement (short of ASIS) probably can't access data on my devices via technical means (while knowing full well they have the capability to ruin my life if I refuse to hand over password and decryption keys).
  - wkat4242 2y ago
    I don't think apple is the best. You still end up with lots of data collection by Apple. Degoogled Android like Graphene is way better for privacy as long as you are careful with the apps you install.
  - southernplaces7 2y ago
    ASIS?
    - stevesimmons 2y ago
      Australian Secret Intelligence Service

rednafi 2y ago

Touche

ranger_danger 2y ago

> How is trusting the manufacturer to not transfer that information any more reasonable than trusting Amazon to not spy on me when they say they don't? Probably because phone manufacturers have historically not done things as bad as Amazon has privacy-wise. But you're right. They could.

jchw 2y ago

> The same is true for smart phones, yet almost nobody has an issue with those. Let me just be the first to say I absolutely have an issue with smartphones. (edit: Of course, I could very well count in the 'almost nobody' category, but the same might well be true in general for people concerned about smart devices.)

bigiain 2y ago
I also absolutely have an issue with smartphones and privacy. But I'm also a pragmatist. In my opinion Apple, while not even approaching being "perfect", are most likely to be the least worst of all practical options. 5 or 10 years back, I would have ranked Google's Pixel phones in 2nd, but not so much these days, if they're still 2nd they're a long long way back from 1st and only second because every other choice is so so bad. I used to buy Samsung phones back in the Galaxy S2 up to Galaxy S6 era, but they did so many bad-for-security things I no longer trust them with any of my data. I don't trust any of the Chinese brand at all. Although I do have a few super inexpensive Chinese Android tablets that get used on a non internet connected subnet as home automation controllers. Even if they do manage to phone home, the only sensitive data they have is the private subnet wifi password and the always-on VPN endpoint through the router. I like to think (but cannot prove) that Chinese manufacturing hasn't managed to plant working backdoors in every iPhone they build, and that if they have targetted supply chain attacks for individual or small batches of devices that I'm not interesting enough to burn one of those on. I do sometimes wonder whether Jamal Khashoggi thought that too though... I've "settled" with the level of security I believe my iPhone gives me. Partly because I long ago made peace with the fact that if a nation state security agency even became "interested" in my, I've already lost the game. I've given up trying to protect myself against the NSA or Mossad or the MSS or the FSB, or even "second tier" security agencies like my local ASIS. I do what I can to make it hard for adversaries like organised crime, scammers, script kiddies, and surveillance capitalists, and I'd like to think I've done enough that law enforcement (short of ASIS) probably can't access data on my devices via technical means (while knowing full well they have the capability to ruin my life if I refuse to hand over password and decryption keys).
- wkat4242 2y ago
  I don't think apple is the best. You still end up with lots of data collection by Apple. Degoogled Android like Graphene is way better for privacy as long as you are careful with the apps you install.
- southernplaces7 2y ago
  ASIS?
  - stevesimmons 2y ago
    Australian Secret Intelligence Service