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>> The top-heavy design didn't help things either Just wait for SpaceX to start trying to land starships on the moon. Also vertically. Also doomed to tip ov
by sandworm101 2y ago
>> The top-heavy design didn't help things either
Just wait for SpaceX to start trying to land starships on the moon. Also vertically. Also doomed to tip over whenever the surface is slightly out of spec.
https://www.spacex.com/humanspaceflight/moon/ https://www.spacex.com/humanspaceflight/moon/
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> Just wait for SpaceX to start trying to land starships on the moon. Also vertically SpaceX has done it. To date, other nation-states have tried and failed to replicate their achievements in this domain. IM’s design is wrongly optimised and probably requires a rethink. That the CEO won’t contemplate this isn’t a great sign for the company.
- CamperBob2 2y agoSpaceX has done it. SpaceX has landed Starship on the moon?!
- JumpCrisscross 2y agoSpaceX has repeatedly and reliably landed vertical stacks. On any body. Out of the engineering problems inherent to HLS, sticking the landing isn’t material because for them, for that team, it isn't as novel a problem as e.g. in-orbit refuelling or getting Raptors to relight on the Moon. Put another way, just because SpaceX has done it doesn't mean the same problem carries the same risk for a team like IM's.
- MegaButts 2y agoHas SpaceX ever landed their rocket on a surface that isn't purposefully engineered to be flat?
- Seanambers 2y agoMultiple sea landings, but I guess you'd argue those don't count since the vehicles tip over in water and explode. Moving barges in the sea should qualify though.
- hildolfr 2y agoA moving barge with a known flat surface of a known hardness and stability is a whole different category of difficult than doing the same thing on naturally occurring terrain with unknown voids, hardness, roughness and consistency.
- PhasmaFelis 2y agoIs a landing barge not "purposefully engineered to be flat"?
- TylerE 2y agoThey also have the atmosphere, with drag that will make all velocities trend towards zero. Don’t have that on the moon, gotta do it all with fuel. More than half of the energy she’s by the returning falcon is aerobraking. Yes, the moon has substantially less gravity but it’s also exponentially harder to get the fuel there.
- chrisweekly 2y ago"the atmosphere, with drag that will make all velocities trend towards zero" Did you forget about gravity? Terminal velocity in free-fall is not zero!
- TylerE 2y agoTrend towards. The rocket is descending far faster than low altitude terminal velocity.
- ohgr 2y agoSo what you're saying is we need to blast some barges into space and land them on the moon so we have a flat surface for starship to land on?
- sandworm101 2y agoLol. SpaceX has landed on prepared surfaces, concrete pads on land or on large barges. They literally have a big X to mark the target. Let's see them land on some random beach, an uneven surface that may or may not subside. But that is still peanuts comparted to the moon's surface.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> that is still peanuts comparted to the moon's surface Sure. I'm not trivialising the problem in an absolute sense. Just going from floating barge or chopsticks to Moon is a simpler set of problems than reïnventing the sort of translational velocity and attitude control needed to get to first base.
- sandworm101 2y agoFor selecting and touching down on an unprepared surface, rockets are not the stepping stone. Start with helicopters. It is the same problem: can I land there and what will happen when I put weight on the surface. Try programing a large helicopter to identify and land on a random chunk of rocky terrain. It is not easy. And the bigger/taller the craft, the more difficult it becomes. Then add a 10-second time limit.
- Kye 2y agoAre the sky cranes of Mars viable without an atmosphere?
- ted_dunning 2y agoYou say this based on your history of landing rockets on the moon? And on your history of dealing with the lunar regolith near the poles?
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> You say this based on your history of landing rockets on the moon? Actually, mini propulsive landers in lunar regolith stimulant. Yes. In atmosphere and with Earth gravity, both of which make it more annoying and more difficult.
- Frederation 2y agoKeep that Musk copium going, man!
- oceanplexian 2y agoWhy does this even have to be a problem? We can send small probes to image the moon in incredibly high resolution. It's a big place I'm sure there is a perfectly flat rock somewhere they can use.
- sandworm101 2y agoHave you ever seen a perfectly flat rock anywhere on earth? One capable of supporting a large rocket? Also, the moon doesn't have the various navigation systems (GPS/radar) that is used when bringing rocket stages back the pad.