4 ms·

Promoting a terrorist organization is legal and well within the boundaries of free speech. It's just not cool, not a good look, and should be shamed into submis

Promoting a terrorist organization is legal and well within the boundaries of free speech. It's just not cool, not a good look, and should be shamed into submission. Providing material support to a terrorist organization is where it crosses into criminal territory.

worik 2y ago
> Promoting a terrorist organization... is not what Mahmoud Kahill (sp?) was doing. He's was protesting the University of Columbia's support of Israel, who were engaged in a wildly homicidal campaign against his kin.
- darksaints 2y ago
  I’m well aware. Read my other comments in this thread.
blindriver 2y ago
You need to educate yourself. This is 100% incorrect. It might be legal for a citizen but not a permanent resident. Endorsing terrorism is a question asked on every Green Card and naturalization application, and will get your deported. Until you are a citizen you will lose your green card for endorsing terrorism.
- aprilthird2021 2y ago
  So if a green card holder said "I can see why people support Hamas" should he be expelled? When does just talking about a situation turn into "endorsement" or "support"?
  - trollbridge 2y ago
    That’s part of the problem here. The federal government can decide by fiat that you did a bad thing before you applied for a green card and then deport you based on that. They can also say you did a bad thing after and revoke your green card, although it’s a bit more paperwork to do so and requires a higher up to sign off on it (in this recent case, the Secretary of State himself). I’m not aware of any country that provides blanket free speech for noncitizens.
    - aprilthird2021 2y ago
      We used to be a unique country when it came to free speech. No reason why it shouldn't be provided to noncitizens too, imo. We let our enemies pump news and media into our country because we believe the people actually run the country.
  - blindriver 2y ago
    Yes, it's enough to get lawyers involved if you're stupid enough to get caught for talking about terrorism like that when you're on your green card.
    - aprilthird2021 2y ago
      That's ridiculous, imo. If we don't understand geopolitics and can't talk about it, what hope do we have of being good at it?
- darksaints 2y ago
  Conditions for admissibility are one thing, and you can be denied entry for any thought crime that the government wants to impose. Once you are in, you have the same rights to free speech as any citizen, and the same rights to due process as well. In fact, the only thing they can do to curb your free speech is prove in court that you lied on your application. Which is likely how this case will play out after judges rule on how illegal their attempted action is, but as of yet the government has not provided any evidence of him lying on his application.
  - blindriver 2y ago
    No you do not have the same rights as any citizen. You are wrong. You cannot endorse terrorism. If you come into the US on a visa and say "Death to America!" then you will be deported. This has been the case for decades upon decades and in my opinion it is correct. It's called biting the hand that feeds you and that person is taking a spot from someone else who would be grateful for being in the US.
    - darksaints 2y ago
      Your opinion doesn’t matter dude. Decades of jurisprudence and Supreme Court precedent has already conclusively determined that green card holders have the same rights to free speech as citizens. It would take overturning the existing Supreme Court precedent, and destroying the 1st amendment along with it, for that to go away.
      - blindriver 2y ago
        You are completely wrong. Supreme Court found that aliens do not have full first amendment protection, especially around terrorism.
        mindslight 2y ago
        s/Supreme Court found/Subservient Council declared/g Our Constitution and Bill of Rights is framed in terms of recognizing independent-existing natural inalienable rights. Citizenship is a complete red herring. The SC has been writing justifications for blatant infringement of natural rights for decades, even before the current neofascist takeover. Take the Bill of Rights as a list of test cases, run down them, and try to find one that is actually passing.

worik 2y ago

> Promoting a terrorist organization... is not what Mahmoud Kahill (sp?) was doing. He's was protesting the University of Columbia's support of Israel, who were engaged in a wildly homicidal campaign against his kin.

darksaints 2y ago
I’m well aware. Read my other comments in this thread.

blindriver 2y ago

You need to educate yourself. This is 100% incorrect. It might be legal for a citizen but not a permanent resident. Endorsing terrorism is a question asked on every Green Card and naturalization application, and will get your deported. Until you are a citizen you will lose your green card for endorsing terrorism.

aprilthird2021 2y ago
So if a green card holder said "I can see why people support Hamas" should he be expelled? When does just talking about a situation turn into "endorsement" or "support"?
- trollbridge 2y ago
  That’s part of the problem here. The federal government can decide by fiat that you did a bad thing before you applied for a green card and then deport you based on that. They can also say you did a bad thing after and revoke your green card, although it’s a bit more paperwork to do so and requires a higher up to sign off on it (in this recent case, the Secretary of State himself). I’m not aware of any country that provides blanket free speech for noncitizens.
  - aprilthird2021 2y ago
    We used to be a unique country when it came to free speech. No reason why it shouldn't be provided to noncitizens too, imo. We let our enemies pump news and media into our country because we believe the people actually run the country.
- blindriver 2y ago
  Yes, it's enough to get lawyers involved if you're stupid enough to get caught for talking about terrorism like that when you're on your green card.
  - aprilthird2021 2y ago
    That's ridiculous, imo. If we don't understand geopolitics and can't talk about it, what hope do we have of being good at it?
darksaints 2y ago
Conditions for admissibility are one thing, and you can be denied entry for any thought crime that the government wants to impose. Once you are in, you have the same rights to free speech as any citizen, and the same rights to due process as well. In fact, the only thing they can do to curb your free speech is prove in court that you lied on your application. Which is likely how this case will play out after judges rule on how illegal their attempted action is, but as of yet the government has not provided any evidence of him lying on his application.
- blindriver 2y ago
  No you do not have the same rights as any citizen. You are wrong. You cannot endorse terrorism. If you come into the US on a visa and say "Death to America!" then you will be deported. This has been the case for decades upon decades and in my opinion it is correct. It's called biting the hand that feeds you and that person is taking a spot from someone else who would be grateful for being in the US.
  - darksaints 2y ago
    Your opinion doesn’t matter dude. Decades of jurisprudence and Supreme Court precedent has already conclusively determined that green card holders have the same rights to free speech as citizens. It would take overturning the existing Supreme Court precedent, and destroying the 1st amendment along with it, for that to go away.
    - blindriver 2y ago
      You are completely wrong. Supreme Court found that aliens do not have full first amendment protection, especially around terrorism.
      - mindslight 2y ago
        s/Supreme Court found/Subservient Council declared/g Our Constitution and Bill of Rights is framed in terms of recognizing independent-existing natural inalienable rights. Citizenship is a complete red herring. The SC has been writing justifications for blatant infringement of natural rights for decades, even before the current neofascist takeover. Take the Bill of Rights as a list of test cases, run down them, and try to find one that is actually passing.