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Are you denying that Hamas is a terrorist group? Committing terrorism is literally the central part of their operations. Are you denying that October 7th was te

Are you denying that Hamas is a terrorist group? Committing terrorism is literally the central part of their operations. Are you denying that October 7th was terrorism? Are you denying that launching thousands of rockets against Israel to kill as many Jewish people as possible is terrorism?

latentcall 2y ago
Is calling out a right wing military state for bombing and killing over 14,000 Palestinian children terrorism? Just talking about it makes you the bad guy, huh?
- tome 2y ago
  Presenting it in those false terms makes you a bad guy, yes. Israel is not a "military state" and a left wing Israeli government would have carried out much the same military operations. "Children" were not bombed. Military targets were bombed. Many children died in consequence, not least because of Hamas's eagerness to put them in harm's way in an attempt to win over credulous fools, albeit some of them well-meaning.
  - dttze 2y ago
    There is no left wing in Israel, you are painting a false narrative. It is a fascist state run by thugs (much like ours, which is probably why they are so eager to sell out Americans to Israel). Children were bombed. They knew the kids were there and they bombed them. Often happily doing it knowing they'd slaughter hundreds to get one supposed terrorist. They bulldozed bodies. They tiktoked the destruction of universities and hospitals. "Hamas's eagerness to put them in harm's way" is such a tired lie to cover up for the slaughter of innocent people by the Israeli terror state.
    - tome 2y ago
      The 2021 elections ended with a government of 61 seats, including 7 seats for Labor (left), 6 seats for Meretz (fairly hard left), 4 seats for Ra'am (Islamist), so 25% from what would be considered a "left bloc" from a Western viewpoint. Then Yesh Atid and Blue and White had 17 and 8 respectively, both centrists, so just short of 50%. So there most certainly is a left (albeit small) and a substantial centre. Israel has a pluralistic political sphere. Israel's military operates according to the laws of war, which forbid targeting of civilians, but do not forbid civilian deaths. In a sense you're right though. If by "left" you mean "peace movement", that was on life support after the second intifada, and Oct 7th pulled the plug. There will be no substantial peace movement in Israel for a generation. Many of those slaughtered on Oct 7th were from the hard left/peace movement bloc. And to reiterate, yes, presenting things in those false terms makes you a bad guy.
      - dttze 2y ago
        Seats mean nothing. If there is a plurality and any kind of left movement there, what opposition have they given to the right? AFAICT, Yair's biggest criticism was that the war was managed poorly by Bibi. 80% of Israeli jews support the ethnic cleansing of Gaza. People are arrested for saying the oppressed have a right to defend themselves. You see videos of IDF troops calling for the death of all Arabs while they are on vacation. You see them doing crimes against humanity in Gaza war footage. That isn't a healthy society, it isn't a society with a leftist movement. It is a fascist bloodthirsty society, run by thugs like Bibi, Smotrich, and Ben-Gvir. Supporting them means you either naive or that you lack any morals. Which makes your "bad guy" accusation meaningless.
        tome 2y ago
        Yes, that's my point. Any plausible Israeli government, left, right or centre, would have conducted the war in roughly the same way, including the historical left governments of Ben Gurion, Meir, Rabin, Peres or Barak. Thus attempts to paint Israel as "right wing" due to its conduct of the war are fallacious. I'm just pointing out that painting falsehoods about Israel and its people (as you have continued to do in your most recent post) does indeed make you a bad guy. I don't expect you to agree with me!
worik 2y ago
> Committing terrorism is literally the central part of their operation That is untrue They are far deeper than that. They are primarily cultural, education is their main focus
- an-honest-moose 2y ago
  >They are primarily cultural, education is their main focus That's...a new one. Are you sure you're talking about the same Hamas, aka the Islamic Resistance Movement? The one that, as of their 2017 charter, declares that "Hamas is a[...]national liberation and resistance movement"? I'm not here to debate whether or not they're a terrorist organization, I just think it's pretty disingenuous to say that "education is their main focus".
aprilthird2021 2y ago
Can you read the comment you're replying to again please? It doesn't mention Hamas anywhere in it
- Calavar 2y ago
  This is a very common trope in any Israel/Gaza debate. Person A says 'Palestinians' and Person B judos that into 'Hamas' to make Person A's point sound extremist.

latentcall 2y ago

Is calling out a right wing military state for bombing and killing over 14,000 Palestinian children terrorism? Just talking about it makes you the bad guy, huh?

tome 2y ago
Presenting it in those false terms makes you a bad guy, yes. Israel is not a "military state" and a left wing Israeli government would have carried out much the same military operations. "Children" were not bombed. Military targets were bombed. Many children died in consequence, not least because of Hamas's eagerness to put them in harm's way in an attempt to win over credulous fools, albeit some of them well-meaning.
- dttze 2y ago
  There is no left wing in Israel, you are painting a false narrative. It is a fascist state run by thugs (much like ours, which is probably why they are so eager to sell out Americans to Israel). Children were bombed. They knew the kids were there and they bombed them. Often happily doing it knowing they'd slaughter hundreds to get one supposed terrorist. They bulldozed bodies. They tiktoked the destruction of universities and hospitals. "Hamas's eagerness to put them in harm's way" is such a tired lie to cover up for the slaughter of innocent people by the Israeli terror state.
  - tome 2y ago
    The 2021 elections ended with a government of 61 seats, including 7 seats for Labor (left), 6 seats for Meretz (fairly hard left), 4 seats for Ra'am (Islamist), so 25% from what would be considered a "left bloc" from a Western viewpoint. Then Yesh Atid and Blue and White had 17 and 8 respectively, both centrists, so just short of 50%. So there most certainly is a left (albeit small) and a substantial centre. Israel has a pluralistic political sphere. Israel's military operates according to the laws of war, which forbid targeting of civilians, but do not forbid civilian deaths. In a sense you're right though. If by "left" you mean "peace movement", that was on life support after the second intifada, and Oct 7th pulled the plug. There will be no substantial peace movement in Israel for a generation. Many of those slaughtered on Oct 7th were from the hard left/peace movement bloc. And to reiterate, yes, presenting things in those false terms makes you a bad guy.
    - dttze 2y ago
      Seats mean nothing. If there is a plurality and any kind of left movement there, what opposition have they given to the right? AFAICT, Yair's biggest criticism was that the war was managed poorly by Bibi. 80% of Israeli jews support the ethnic cleansing of Gaza. People are arrested for saying the oppressed have a right to defend themselves. You see videos of IDF troops calling for the death of all Arabs while they are on vacation. You see them doing crimes against humanity in Gaza war footage. That isn't a healthy society, it isn't a society with a leftist movement. It is a fascist bloodthirsty society, run by thugs like Bibi, Smotrich, and Ben-Gvir. Supporting them means you either naive or that you lack any morals. Which makes your "bad guy" accusation meaningless.
      - tome 2y ago
        Yes, that's my point. Any plausible Israeli government, left, right or centre, would have conducted the war in roughly the same way, including the historical left governments of Ben Gurion, Meir, Rabin, Peres or Barak. Thus attempts to paint Israel as "right wing" due to its conduct of the war are fallacious. I'm just pointing out that painting falsehoods about Israel and its people (as you have continued to do in your most recent post) does indeed make you a bad guy. I don't expect you to agree with me!

worik 2y ago

> Committing terrorism is literally the central part of their operation That is untrue They are far deeper than that. They are primarily cultural, education is their main focus

an-honest-moose 2y ago
>They are primarily cultural, education is their main focus That's...a new one. Are you sure you're talking about the same Hamas, aka the Islamic Resistance Movement? The one that, as of their 2017 charter, declares that "Hamas is a[...]national liberation and resistance movement"? I'm not here to debate whether or not they're a terrorist organization, I just think it's pretty disingenuous to say that "education is their main focus".

aprilthird2021 2y ago

Can you read the comment you're replying to again please? It doesn't mention Hamas anywhere in it

Calavar 2y ago
This is a very common trope in any Israel/Gaza debate. Person A says 'Palestinians' and Person B judos that into 'Hamas' to make Person A's point sound extremist.