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I really dislike it when Japan is brought up as a comparison with the US, especially when it comes to crime or schooling. The cultures, poverty levels, and crim

by bink 2y ago

I really dislike it when Japan is brought up as a comparison with the US, especially when it comes to crime or schooling. The cultures, poverty levels, and crime rates are so vastly different that it's never helpful.

mmooss 2y ago
Maybe they are so different because you (and others) won't try to learn from different cultures. If not, probably nothing will change.
- bluGill 2y ago
  There is much to learn from them. However there are dark sides of their culture too. They have high suicide rates, and are very xenophobic (much worse than Trump in the US) for starters. We can learn, but be careful as it isn't always clear which factors you want to emulate are tied to things you don't.
  - jerlam 2y ago
    As of 2019, Japan's suicide rate is lower than the US.
    - ebcode 2y ago
      good to know
- FireBeyond 2y ago
  America has an obsession with being different and has a thousand answers to why things that work elsewhere would not and could not possibly work here. It's the size, if it's not the size, it's the density, if it's not the density it's ... repeat ad nauseam.
  - ryandrake 2y ago
    Yea, when someone claims “this could not possibly work in the USA! It’s too large and the population not dense” or whatever, then ask why it wouldn’t work in just New Jersey which is about as large and dense as some European countries.
- mingus88 2y ago
  What exactly are you suggesting? Japan is a monoculture and strictly traditional, not to mention very xenophobic. Everything works because the social penalties for violating those norms are severe. It’s effectively an ethnostate and not that long ago revered their god-emperor. The U.S. is by contrast a diverse (geographically and demographically), broad culture of immigrant communities based on a concept of rugged individualism where states and townships run things as they see fit. If you want to reshape the U.S. in the model of Japan … well
  - xethos 2y ago
    > What exactly are you suggesting? Not to reshape America into Japan, but attempt to keep the parts that are nice while integrating the best parts of other nations. America loved to claim it was a nation of immigrants; the French even sent you a gift for how much America would take the best of other countries (the brightest minds, the hardest workers), and build with that. Maybe that's not how the country works any more, but it was a nice fantasy.
  - watwut 2y ago
    That difference has squat zero with kids walking or playing.
  - harvey9 2y ago
    Rugged individualism seems to have been lost given the context here.
mitthrowaway2 2y ago
It is if you consider cultures, poverty levels, and crime rates to not be immutable geographic traits, but a result of policy choices. The US can't take a giant leap to kids having Tokyo-like freedom, but it can look at what Japan does differently that results in such a society (eg. its public education system, public transit, policing, street design, typical vehicle size, etc).
- aerostable_slug 2y ago
  You cannot legislate positive cultural attributes into being. There's no way to fine people into reading to their kids, picking up trash when they see it, deciding to put the grocery cart back, prioritizing academic achievement, etc.
  - mitthrowaway2 2y ago
    It takes a lot more than legislation, but Japan's modern culture is in large part the product of its education system. It has a strong focus on teaching exactly that sort of prosocial behaviour.
    - knowitnone 2y ago
      It's taught in the home too and Americans will teach children how to use welfare before throwing away their own trash
    - bitsage 2y ago
      Even then, Japan’s homogeneity allows its government to teach a certain lifestyle to kids with no backlash. That’s unworkable here in the US.
      - mmooss 2y ago
        > Japan’s homogeneity allows its government to teach a certain lifestyle to kids with no backlash. Are they teaching 'lifestyle' - how specifically? Does the US not teach it? And do you have any evidence that homogeniety has something to do with it? Often "homogeneity" is a dog whistle for blaming minorities.

by bink 2y ago

mmooss 2y ago

Maybe they are so different because you (and others) won't try to learn from different cultures. If not, probably nothing will change.

bluGill 2y ago
There is much to learn from them. However there are dark sides of their culture too. They have high suicide rates, and are very xenophobic (much worse than Trump in the US) for starters. We can learn, but be careful as it isn't always clear which factors you want to emulate are tied to things you don't.
- jerlam 2y ago
  As of 2019, Japan's suicide rate is lower than the US.
  - ebcode 2y ago
    good to know
FireBeyond 2y ago
America has an obsession with being different and has a thousand answers to why things that work elsewhere would not and could not possibly work here. It's the size, if it's not the size, it's the density, if it's not the density it's ... repeat ad nauseam.
- ryandrake 2y ago
  Yea, when someone claims “this could not possibly work in the USA! It’s too large and the population not dense” or whatever, then ask why it wouldn’t work in just New Jersey which is about as large and dense as some European countries.
mingus88 2y ago
What exactly are you suggesting? Japan is a monoculture and strictly traditional, not to mention very xenophobic. Everything works because the social penalties for violating those norms are severe. It’s effectively an ethnostate and not that long ago revered their god-emperor. The U.S. is by contrast a diverse (geographically and demographically), broad culture of immigrant communities based on a concept of rugged individualism where states and townships run things as they see fit. If you want to reshape the U.S. in the model of Japan … well
- xethos 2y ago
  > What exactly are you suggesting? Not to reshape America into Japan, but attempt to keep the parts that are nice while integrating the best parts of other nations. America loved to claim it was a nation of immigrants; the French even sent you a gift for how much America would take the best of other countries (the brightest minds, the hardest workers), and build with that. Maybe that's not how the country works any more, but it was a nice fantasy.
- watwut 2y ago
  That difference has squat zero with kids walking or playing.
- harvey9 2y ago
  Rugged individualism seems to have been lost given the context here.

mitthrowaway2 2y ago

It is if you consider cultures, poverty levels, and crime rates to not be immutable geographic traits, but a result of policy choices. The US can't take a giant leap to kids having Tokyo-like freedom, but it can look at what Japan does differently that results in such a society (eg. its public education system, public transit, policing, street design, typical vehicle size, etc).

aerostable_slug 2y ago
You cannot legislate positive cultural attributes into being. There's no way to fine people into reading to their kids, picking up trash when they see it, deciding to put the grocery cart back, prioritizing academic achievement, etc.
- mitthrowaway2 2y ago
  It takes a lot more than legislation, but Japan's modern culture is in large part the product of its education system. It has a strong focus on teaching exactly that sort of prosocial behaviour.
  - knowitnone 2y ago
    It's taught in the home too and Americans will teach children how to use welfare before throwing away their own trash
  - bitsage 2y ago
    Even then, Japan’s homogeneity allows its government to teach a certain lifestyle to kids with no backlash. That’s unworkable here in the US.
    - mmooss 2y ago
      > Japan’s homogeneity allows its government to teach a certain lifestyle to kids with no backlash. Are they teaching 'lifestyle' - how specifically? Does the US not teach it? And do you have any evidence that homogeniety has something to do with it? Often "homogeneity" is a dog whistle for blaming minorities.