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Everyone here should watch the Japanese TV series, Old Enough!. 2-4 year olds are sent out on their own to run errands, etc. Yes, really, 2-4 years old. And the

• Brookeden55 2y ago
  [flagged]
  • qball 2y ago
    The exact same people calling CPS on kids walking down the street claiming it's too dangerous are the people who advocate for turning communities into low-trust economic zones. The reason it's more dangerous now is because of them. They privatized profit (in this case, the warm fuzzies of addicts shooting up on playgrounds) and socialized risk. That is pollution. We should clean up that pollution, and ban those who created it from causing more.
• EA-3167 2y ago
  Ngl if the price for that is a Japanese level of social control, conformity, and their mad justice system... I'll take a car line.
  • JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > I'll take a car line Push this out thirty years. One set of kids was navigating the real world since they were 4. The other has been mollycoddled with overparenting and screen time. Which cohort do you think will be happier, better adjusted and better off? Then realise that it's not uncommon to see grade schoolers taking the subway to and from school in New York.
    • EA-3167 2y ago
      There's more to growing up and being "well adjusted" than walking around as a child, for example the freedom to explore who you are without the "nail that sticks up is hammered down" treatment. I also enjoy a certain amount of diversity (in every sense, from thought to people) that simply isn't tolerated in Japan.
      • messe 2y ago
        Forget Japan for a moment. Walking to and from school unattended is perfectly normal in many countries in the EU. The normalisation of car journeys in the US is bizarre .
        • EA-3167 2y ago
          There is no "US" where something like this is normalized, it's down to region, weather, urbanization and perception of safety. I grew up walking and biking to school because I was lucky enough to live in a nice suburb close to my school. For people who need to take a 20 minute *drive* to school obviously that isn't feasible. The US is a massive country with a huge number of different climates and layouts, which is partly what makes articles and conversations like this so painful to read. Instead of the skeptical, critical thinking you'd expect from HN you get mess of "Car bad" "I wish we had European public transit" and broad generalization talk.
          • JumpCrisscross 2y ago
            > I grew up walking and biking to school because I was lucky enough to live in a nice suburb close to my school So did I. Have you been back? The kids in my school are dropped off when I biked.
            • EA-3167 2y ago
              Yeah, they're still walking/biking. I live in a state where I see kids walking to and from school all of the time.
      • JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    • mmooss 2y ago
      > Which cohort do you think will be happier, better adjusted and better off? Yes, and have agency and think for themselves - a key requirement of democracy and freedom.
    • smogcutter 2y ago
      Consider that the fact that there’s a tv show about it means it’s a novelty in Japan as well. It’s great that Japan has a civil society that makes a show like that possible, but don’t mistake it for more than it is. It’s the same mistake as generalizing from what you read in the news: it’s news because it’s unusual.
      • mitthrowaway2 2y ago
        No, it really is commonplace in Japan. It makes good TV because little kids are cute as heck. Not everybody has kids, and even if you do, they don't remain five years old forever. So even mundane stories about little kids can stay popular.
      • bryanlarsen 2y ago
        The novelty is that the show has 3 year olds being independent. In Japan 5 year olds doing independent tasks is common and expected.
  • nothercastle 2y ago
    Don’t worry you’ll get the control and the car line soon enough
  • bchasknga 2y ago
    We can have a walkable community and still have things we love and do.
  • bryanlarsen 2y ago
    They also did an "Old Enough Canada": https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgBne2KTlDUyxLPg3oalgL1AGh1t5i0hs https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgBne2KTlDUyxLPg3oalg...
• bink 2y ago
  I really dislike it when Japan is brought up as a comparison with the US, especially when it comes to crime or schooling. The cultures, poverty levels, and crime rates are so vastly different that it's never helpful.
  • mmooss 2y ago
    Maybe they are so different because you (and others) won't try to learn from different cultures. If not, probably nothing will change.
    • bluGill 2y ago
      There is much to learn from them. However there are dark sides of their culture too. They have high suicide rates, and are very xenophobic (much worse than Trump in the US) for starters. We can learn, but be careful as it isn't always clear which factors you want to emulate are tied to things you don't.
      • jerlam 2y ago
        As of 2019, Japan's suicide rate is lower than the US.
        • ebcode 2y ago
          good to know
    • FireBeyond 2y ago
      America has an obsession with being different and has a thousand answers to why things that work elsewhere would not and could not possibly work here. It's the size, if it's not the size, it's the density, if it's not the density it's ... repeat ad nauseam.
      • ryandrake 2y ago
        Yea, when someone claims “this could not possibly work in the USA! It’s too large and the population not dense” or whatever, then ask why it wouldn’t work in just New Jersey which is about as large and dense as some European countries.
• Aurornis 2y ago
  This is a reality TV show. They have a full crew following the kids around. Like any reality TV, you're only seeing the story they want you to see. Nobody should be gauging reality based on what you see on reality TV shows.
  • mmooss 2y ago
    The crew is often in disguise, and the kids have no idea who they are. At 3, do you know what a cameraperson is? Edit: Occasional parts of the show are the camera people trying to avoid the kid who has turned and is walking right toward them.
  • mitthrowaway2 2y ago
    Sure, but if you spend time in Japan you really will see five-year-old kids walking long distances and taking transit to school and running errands unaccompanied.
    • mysterydip 2y ago
      Agreed, I saw it firsthand while I was there. The elementary school was near the train station I had to take to get to university, and there was always a line of little kids walking themselves there every morning.
• DavidPeiffer 2y ago
  In grad school, a friend from China explained that he stayed home on his own starting at like age 3. He was going down to the market outside his high rise apartment, buying basic groceries, and entertaining himself all day. It blew my mind, he saw nothing wrong with it.
  • antisthenes 2y ago
    There's nothing wrong with it. It's actually impressive that you can entertain yourself at 3-4 years old. My perception of time at that age would have been such that I'd probably be very fearful of being abandoned if left alone for more than 2-3 hours. But kudos to him.
  • mingus88 2y ago
    That’s quite a tale you were told. As a parent I can tell you my children barely even remember being 3yo, let alone have the ability to reach the shelves and pour their own beverages at that age
    • RandomBacon 2y ago
      As a HN denizen, I can tell you that your anecdote does not overide someone else's anecdote.
• rdtsc 2y ago
  That wouldn't work in US until the whole culture changes. An individual family may do this, and then someone will call child protective services because there is a lost, unaccompanied child. Happened to my coworker: kids were playing outside and a neighbor called the authorities on them. Not clear if they really thought the kids were in danger, or just did it out of spite, but what ensued was a nightmare of CPS calling the workplace and a few follow-up house visits. The sad part is everyone involved can turn around and claim "we were worried about the children" and use that as a shield for whatever overzealousness or maliciousness may hide underneath.
  • qball 2y ago
    >That wouldn't work in US until the whole culture changes. This is one of those things laws are great at. Delete the power of idiot Karens and the culture will return to normal. It works for Utah (and to a point, Texas); it can work for your polity, too. When children are at far greater risk of abuse and abduction by concern trolls and the State, and they very much are in New World countries, your society is broken.
    • mmooss 2y ago
      > children are at far greater risk of abuse and abduction by concern trolls and the State Is there evidence of that? And would you define 'concern trolls' (beyond 'people who have concerns different than mine')?
      • qball 2y ago
        >people who have concerns different than mine "Trying to abduct my child either directly or by proxy" is not merely a question of polite differing concerns.
        • mmooss 2y ago
          Who is trying to do that?
• valbaca 2y ago
  > And they succeed and are fine. They also literally had a camera and crew on standby while also blocking off streets (off screen).
  • mmooss 2y ago
    I don't know what you read, but there are plenty of scenes of the kids crossing streets that have traffic.
• spenczar5 2y ago
  It is importamt to understand the whole cultural picture of this practice: 1. Neighbors and friends are notified in advance. "If you see my daughter and she looks lost, please help her, she is doing an errand." 2. The destination is usually notified. "My daughter is coming to buy rice, let me know if she isnt there in two hours." 3. This practice is somewhat old-fashioned and rural. Many parents wouldnt consider it today. Remember, the show was aired to a Japanese audience. If it were universal, it would not be worth televising.
  • mmooss 2y ago
    Have you seen the show? It's often (usually?) filmed in towns, and I don't recall adults often being notified.
  • watwut 2y ago
    In Switzerland, 5 years old walk alone to school. In Germany 6 years old.
    • musicale 2y ago
      TFA seems to be making the point that it could become more common in the US if the school commute were more walkable - shorter and safer from cars. I have observed many kids walking and biking to and from schools when these conditions seem to exist. Crossing guards help out for crossing busier roads near the school. However, there is also a car queue, perhaps for students who live farther away.
• apwell23 2y ago
  This is not real though.
• op00to 2y ago
  This show makes my spouse anxious! It’s a blast to watch from time to time.
• subharmonicon 2y ago
  My dad grew up in 1930’s Detroit and would tell us about how when he was five his mother would give him a little money and have him walk a few blocks to the baker to get a loaf of bread. I grew up in the 70’s where after maybe eight we had pretty much free rein. I rode my bike several blocks away and crossed two busy four lane roads to get candy at 7-11. The world is no more dangerous now than it was then, and yet here we are, with parents being treated like criminals for letting their kids play in their own front yard.
  • mmooss 2y ago
    > The world is no more dangerous now than it was then It's a lot safer than the 1970s in most places.