3 ms·

> But if it can't, you just design the route so that the driver can switch busses and buy another bus Oof, that's a huge 'just' in many cases. That said, curr

> But if it can't, you just design the route so that the driver can switch busses and buy another bus Oof, that's a huge 'just' in many cases. That said, current electric buses have sufficient range that this mostly isn't an issue. The unnervingly silent double-deckers I mention have a claimed range of 320km, which, at least here, is sufficient. The big problem with Dublin's electric buses, ridiculously, was that the operator was late in applying for planning permission for the substations required to charge them. With the result that for about a year, there were about a hundred of them stored and unusable.

bobthepanda 2y ago
This depends a lot on local climate and topography. Seattle has kind of been a bust with them because the hills really reduce the amount of charge, and on top of that the existing bus depots are already full, so switching to electric only would mean having to find and locate space for more bus depots, which is quite difficult.
- bombcar 2y ago
  Seattle also has (or had) trolley busses which fixed that problem. Everything is cost, it's all cost, not the ability to actually solve the problem.
  - KeplerBoy 2y ago
    I wonder if trolley busses will make a great comeback now. Seems so obvious to just put the overhead lines near a few central bus hubs, so buses can recharge during the shift.
    - bobthepanda 2y ago
      The main issue with trolleybuses is that they are subject to a lot of NIMBYism, so you'll run into issues siting trolley hubs.
- adrian_b 2y ago
  Hills should never reduce the range, because the energy lost during climbing up is recovered when going downhill. This is one of the great advantages of electric vehicles with batteries, when properly designed. Electric buses with batteries are even more suitable for cities with hills than for cities without hills, because they provide greater energy savings over buses with ICEs. While I have never used buses with batteries, I have lived in cities with electric trolley buses. Even with the primitive technology of many decades ago, they were doing great in cities with hills, recovering most of the energy when going downhill, unlike the buses with ICEs, which had excessive fuel consumption because of the hills.
  - datadrivenangel 2y ago
    Regenerative breaking is not perfectly efficient, so you may loose a significant portion of the additional energy needed. Better EV systems are what, 70-80% efficient on the breaking efficiency?
    - kittoes 2y ago
      Sure, but you lose 100% in the case of combustion...
      - thfuran 2y ago
        Okay, but gasoline is far more energy dense than batteries and a gas tank is a whole lot cheaper than a battery pack, so vehicles can have a gas tank big enough that that doesn't cause range problems. I don't know about buses, but you can buy a pickup with a 48 gallon tank. Even after assuming only about 1/3 efficiency, that's still equivalent to some 500 KWhr, which is several times more than any consumer EV I'm aware of.
      - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
        That's efficiency, not range. Suppose hilly terrain reduces range by a third for electric vehicles and half for diesel. The diesel bus just fills up twice as often. The electric bus needs a 50% bigger battery in order to finish the same route without stopping to charge, and then it becomes 70% because it has to lug the bigger battery up the hills. You can just... do that, but that doesn't mean it's not a thing you have to do, and it's not free.
- potato3732842 2y ago
  I think it depends more on the regulatory climate.
tanewishly 2y ago
> Oof, that's a huge 'just' in many cases. Alternatively, you could add charging infrastructure in more places. Eg, partially have trolley-like lines on the route to "top up". This could make sense on dedicated buslanes, especially when multiple lines use that stretch (eg near central stop).

bobthepanda 2y ago

This depends a lot on local climate and topography. Seattle has kind of been a bust with them because the hills really reduce the amount of charge, and on top of that the existing bus depots are already full, so switching to electric only would mean having to find and locate space for more bus depots, which is quite difficult.

bombcar 2y ago
Seattle also has (or had) trolley busses which fixed that problem. Everything is cost, it's all cost, not the ability to actually solve the problem.
- KeplerBoy 2y ago
  I wonder if trolley busses will make a great comeback now. Seems so obvious to just put the overhead lines near a few central bus hubs, so buses can recharge during the shift.
  - bobthepanda 2y ago
    The main issue with trolleybuses is that they are subject to a lot of NIMBYism, so you'll run into issues siting trolley hubs.
adrian_b 2y ago
Hills should never reduce the range, because the energy lost during climbing up is recovered when going downhill. This is one of the great advantages of electric vehicles with batteries, when properly designed. Electric buses with batteries are even more suitable for cities with hills than for cities without hills, because they provide greater energy savings over buses with ICEs. While I have never used buses with batteries, I have lived in cities with electric trolley buses. Even with the primitive technology of many decades ago, they were doing great in cities with hills, recovering most of the energy when going downhill, unlike the buses with ICEs, which had excessive fuel consumption because of the hills.
- datadrivenangel 2y ago
  Regenerative breaking is not perfectly efficient, so you may loose a significant portion of the additional energy needed. Better EV systems are what, 70-80% efficient on the breaking efficiency?
  - kittoes 2y ago
    Sure, but you lose 100% in the case of combustion...
    - thfuran 2y ago
      Okay, but gasoline is far more energy dense than batteries and a gas tank is a whole lot cheaper than a battery pack, so vehicles can have a gas tank big enough that that doesn't cause range problems. I don't know about buses, but you can buy a pickup with a 48 gallon tank. Even after assuming only about 1/3 efficiency, that's still equivalent to some 500 KWhr, which is several times more than any consumer EV I'm aware of.
    - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
      That's efficiency, not range. Suppose hilly terrain reduces range by a third for electric vehicles and half for diesel. The diesel bus just fills up twice as often. The electric bus needs a 50% bigger battery in order to finish the same route without stopping to charge, and then it becomes 70% because it has to lug the bigger battery up the hills. You can just... do that, but that doesn't mean it's not a thing you have to do, and it's not free.
potato3732842 2y ago
I think it depends more on the regulatory climate.

tanewishly 2y ago

> Oof, that's a huge 'just' in many cases. Alternatively, you could add charging infrastructure in more places. Eg, partially have trolley-like lines on the route to "top up". This could make sense on dedicated buslanes, especially when multiple lines use that stretch (eg near central stop).