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"stoicism’s Providential claim that everything in the universe is already perfect and that things which seem bad or unjust are secretly good underneath (a claim

"stoicism’s Providential claim that everything in the universe is already perfect and that things which seem bad or unjust are secretly good underneath (a claim Christianity borrowed from Stoicism) can be used to justify the idea that the rich and powerful are meant to be rich and powerful" What did I miss? Does Stoicism claim everything in the universe is already perfect? That seems like a bold (counter-intuitive) claim.

LatteLazy 2y ago
Stoicism does not claim that at all. Not sure what the author means…
isleyaardvark 2y ago
It’s wrong on the same level of “The central message of Buddhism is not ‘every man for himself’, Otto!”
betenoire 2y ago
"perfect" is a weird word to use in stoicism, but I do think it can be used to justify that things "are the way they are" and shrug it off with some visualization.
- pj_mukh 2y ago
  I always saw Stoicism as “things around you are going to be really screwed up and panicking about it will make it worse” The first part of that sentence is opposite to what the author here suggests.
  - betenoire 2y ago
    both "screwed up" and "perfect" are judgements calls/perspectives, and panicking isn't going to change things (panic doesn't necessarily make something worse either)
    - bigstrat2003 2y ago
      I think panic almost always makes things worse. There's a reason that in an emergency, the first piece of advice to people is "don't panic".
      - betenoire 2y ago
        almost is the key term here, yes, it depends on the situation causing the panic.
    - tekla 2y ago
      Panic always makes things worse
      - betenoire 2y ago
        you can't think of an example where it doesn't? I can. I'm not saying there is any virtue to it, but panic can subside without having had negative side effects on anything other than your mood
kolanos 2y ago
The serenity Prayer always have a stoic quality to me. "God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference."

LatteLazy 2y ago

Stoicism does not claim that at all. Not sure what the author means…

isleyaardvark 2y ago

It’s wrong on the same level of “The central message of Buddhism is not ‘every man for himself’, Otto!”

betenoire 2y ago

"perfect" is a weird word to use in stoicism, but I do think it can be used to justify that things "are the way they are" and shrug it off with some visualization.

pj_mukh 2y ago
I always saw Stoicism as “things around you are going to be really screwed up and panicking about it will make it worse” The first part of that sentence is opposite to what the author here suggests.
- betenoire 2y ago
  both "screwed up" and "perfect" are judgements calls/perspectives, and panicking isn't going to change things (panic doesn't necessarily make something worse either)
  - bigstrat2003 2y ago
    I think panic almost always makes things worse. There's a reason that in an emergency, the first piece of advice to people is "don't panic".
    - betenoire 2y ago
      almost is the key term here, yes, it depends on the situation causing the panic.
  - tekla 2y ago
    Panic always makes things worse
    - betenoire 2y ago
      you can't think of an example where it doesn't? I can. I'm not saying there is any virtue to it, but panic can subside without having had negative side effects on anything other than your mood

kolanos 2y ago

The serenity Prayer always have a stoic quality to me. "God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference."