6 ms·

Get the same job working for government. Work stability in government is unparalleled, and there is so much cruft and technical debt that you will literally spe

Get the same job working for government. Work stability in government is unparalleled, and there is so much cruft and technical debt that you will literally spend up until your last breath fixing legacy code and trying to get people off ancient software systems. You will stagnate, and nobody will give a shit. People will come and go next to you, but you will be stable through the ages, like a pillar in an ancient Roman temple... Seasons will leave behind memories, but the winds will not take you with them. You will prevail, no matter what. Maybe forgotten, maybe overlooked, but more certainly not underestimated.

dartharva 2y ago
I wouldn't be so sure considering what's happening with federal govt offices in the US right now..
- ac-swe 2y ago
  state & local are always options
  - giantg2 2y ago
    Government adjacent jobs with NGOs that are not federal government funded might also be options.
    - seanw444 2y ago
      A lot of NGOs are government funded, just through multiple layers of indirection, so they can claim they aren't.
  - pelagicAustral 2y ago
    yeah... There is always a niche in government. Plus, I haven't heard of many layoffs affecting software teams in government. Some people are so deeply rooted in their specific concerns that taking them out of a codebase is borderline like cutting the wrong cable on a bomb.
    - kaikai 2y ago
      They shut down 18f, laying off the entire team.
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    They also in danger now. Red states are trying to implement mini-DOGEs and all states have to rethink their budgets with the federal government cutting back.
- Onawa 2y ago
  Yep, I'm a federal contractor working in NIH as a data scientist, and completely agree with the above comment. Before November, I would have said the same thing as the parent comment. After January 20th, everyone who is left is currently looking for backups in case they get laid off. Gov and fed contractor positions used to be the most stable jobs you could get. Now, they are just as uncertain as industry jobs. It's extremely unfortunate.
  - pelagicAustral 2y ago
    Sorry to hear... I hope this situation gets sorted sooner rather than later.
  - dgfitz 2y ago
    Defense contractors most likely do not share the same sentiment.
  - not2b 2y ago
    I'd say that they are more uncertain than industry jobs at this point, unless you're talking about companies that have recently been taken over by private equity where the new owners intend to gut the place and sell off the parts.
    - excalibur 2y ago
      > unless you're talking about companies that have recently been taken over by private equity where the new owners intend to gut the place and sell off the parts. Off topic, but this is starting to feel like the rule rather than the exception. This practice should not be legal.
      - pelagicAustral 2y ago
        It's all about money, isn't it?
      - scarface_74 2y ago
        I worked for a compaby as the dev lead that was bought by private equity along with other smaller companies to eventually get big enough to go public. I saw the writing on the wall. I knew it didn’t make sense to try to build a development department - what I was originally hired to do. I became more of an “enterprise architect” responsible for managing and coordinating third party consulting companies. I left a year and half later and went to work for a startup. I left there abs when I was looking for a job three years later, the company that acquired the startup offered me a job as a staff architect responsible for integrating all of their acquisitions. As soon as I found out it was PE backed, I noped out. I still inadvertently ended up at a PE backed company that also had a roll up strategy. It was shitty and I only lasted a year before moving on
- apwell23 2y ago
  how about working for state govts like IL or CA. I have friends in both but they are not worried (yet).
- MangoCoffee 2y ago
  I don't think it's that different from the private sector. I've been with my current employer for almost 7 years. The company has been sold twice with layoffs. My manager, who hired me years ago, is leaving.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
scarface_74 2y ago
Have you checked on what’s going on in the government this year?
- leereeves 2y ago
  Even with that, work security in government is still unparalleled. In the private sector, if the chief executive wanted to lay off 90% of the workforce, they could. Compare the downsizing of Twitter to the downsizing of the government.
  - idontwantthis 2y ago
    Literally the same guy is doing the downsizing with the same level of care. What are you talking about?
    - Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago
      Lol, funny way to put it
- Vilian 2y ago
  History tells that it isn't recommended to get a job in a fascist government, or one bordering it, maybe change to a democratic country
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    Because it’s really easy to move to a foreign country and be legally allowed to work there.
  - Am4TIfIsER0ppos 2y ago
    How can I do the opposite? Are they looking for collaborators?
    - scarface_74 2y ago
      I work in consulting. The best bet is not to work for the government. But to work for a consulting company that contracts with the government. You will get paid more. I use to work for a consulting department that focused on the public sector. Mark Cuban has the same idea https://qz.com/mark-cuban-elon-musk-doge-shark-tank-business-gsa-18f-1851769621 https://qz.com/mark-cuban-elon-musk-doge-shark-tank-business...
kdevlin 2y ago
[dead]
mrcsharp 2y ago
This basically shows why DOGE is a thing. This sort of attitude is why governments are slow to achieve anything, why any government contract ends up over budget, etc... I await your downvotes.
- kweingar 2y ago
  If the government was a dynamic work environment, it would burn just as much money. But instead of saying "the project went over budget", they'd say "we executed a strategic pivot." Instead of employees "stagnating", employees would launch all sorts of initiatives and then abandon them after getting promoted. Instead of maintaining legacy systems for decades, teams would turn down systems so that employees can work on shinier greenfield projects, leaving users in the lurch. I do not oppose government efficiency. I support reforms to identify and eliminate waste in government. Unfortunately that's not what DOGE is doing.
  - mrcsharp 2y ago
    > But instead of saying "the project went over budget", they'd say "we executed a strategic pivot." Yeah, politicians already do this. They use different words but to the same effect. I am not going to pretend I have the ultimate solution to all of this, but the idea that government employees get to sit there, do bare minimum for the entirety of their careers, and without any desire to improve anything for the sake of the people they serve (because clearly they forgot they work for the citizens of the country in which said government operates) is just so wrong. Maybe we deserve to live in mediocrity. You can, at least, vote out a congress, house, or a parliament member if they are mediocre and not doing much (doesn't always happen but the option exists). Government employees are un-elected (technically) and get to spend their entire life in a "stable" job regardless of their performance. Is this status quo actually good for the country?
    - kweingar 2y ago
      If you want private sector work ethic, you gotta pay private sector salaries. (Many federal employees have a better work ethic than the average private sector worker. But you can't make that an expectation if you're paying less than they could make elsewhere.)

dartharva 2y ago

I wouldn't be so sure considering what's happening with federal govt offices in the US right now..

ac-swe 2y ago
state & local are always options
- giantg2 2y ago
  Government adjacent jobs with NGOs that are not federal government funded might also be options.
  - seanw444 2y ago
    A lot of NGOs are government funded, just through multiple layers of indirection, so they can claim they aren't.
- pelagicAustral 2y ago
  yeah... There is always a niche in government. Plus, I haven't heard of many layoffs affecting software teams in government. Some people are so deeply rooted in their specific concerns that taking them out of a codebase is borderline like cutting the wrong cable on a bomb.
  - kaikai 2y ago
    They shut down 18f, laying off the entire team.
- scarface_74 2y ago
  They also in danger now. Red states are trying to implement mini-DOGEs and all states have to rethink their budgets with the federal government cutting back.
Onawa 2y ago
Yep, I'm a federal contractor working in NIH as a data scientist, and completely agree with the above comment. Before November, I would have said the same thing as the parent comment. After January 20th, everyone who is left is currently looking for backups in case they get laid off. Gov and fed contractor positions used to be the most stable jobs you could get. Now, they are just as uncertain as industry jobs. It's extremely unfortunate.
- pelagicAustral 2y ago
  Sorry to hear... I hope this situation gets sorted sooner rather than later.
- dgfitz 2y ago
  Defense contractors most likely do not share the same sentiment.
- not2b 2y ago
  I'd say that they are more uncertain than industry jobs at this point, unless you're talking about companies that have recently been taken over by private equity where the new owners intend to gut the place and sell off the parts.
  - excalibur 2y ago
    > unless you're talking about companies that have recently been taken over by private equity where the new owners intend to gut the place and sell off the parts. Off topic, but this is starting to feel like the rule rather than the exception. This practice should not be legal.
    - pelagicAustral 2y ago
      It's all about money, isn't it?
    - scarface_74 2y ago
      I worked for a compaby as the dev lead that was bought by private equity along with other smaller companies to eventually get big enough to go public. I saw the writing on the wall. I knew it didn’t make sense to try to build a development department - what I was originally hired to do. I became more of an “enterprise architect” responsible for managing and coordinating third party consulting companies. I left a year and half later and went to work for a startup. I left there abs when I was looking for a job three years later, the company that acquired the startup offered me a job as a staff architect responsible for integrating all of their acquisitions. As soon as I found out it was PE backed, I noped out. I still inadvertently ended up at a PE backed company that also had a roll up strategy. It was shitty and I only lasted a year before moving on
apwell23 2y ago
how about working for state govts like IL or CA. I have friends in both but they are not worried (yet).
MangoCoffee 2y ago
I don't think it's that different from the private sector. I've been with my current employer for almost 7 years. The company has been sold twice with layoffs. My manager, who hired me years ago, is leaving.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

scarface_74 2y ago

Have you checked on what’s going on in the government this year?

leereeves 2y ago
Even with that, work security in government is still unparalleled. In the private sector, if the chief executive wanted to lay off 90% of the workforce, they could. Compare the downsizing of Twitter to the downsizing of the government.
- idontwantthis 2y ago
  Literally the same guy is doing the downsizing with the same level of care. What are you talking about?
  - Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago
    Lol, funny way to put it
Vilian 2y ago
History tells that it isn't recommended to get a job in a fascist government, or one bordering it, maybe change to a democratic country
- scarface_74 2y ago
  Because it’s really easy to move to a foreign country and be legally allowed to work there.
- Am4TIfIsER0ppos 2y ago
  How can I do the opposite? Are they looking for collaborators?
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    I work in consulting. The best bet is not to work for the government. But to work for a consulting company that contracts with the government. You will get paid more. I use to work for a consulting department that focused on the public sector. Mark Cuban has the same idea https://qz.com/mark-cuban-elon-musk-doge-shark-tank-business-gsa-18f-1851769621 https://qz.com/mark-cuban-elon-musk-doge-shark-tank-business...

kdevlin 2y ago

[dead]

mrcsharp 2y ago

This basically shows why DOGE is a thing. This sort of attitude is why governments are slow to achieve anything, why any government contract ends up over budget, etc... I await your downvotes.

kweingar 2y ago
If the government was a dynamic work environment, it would burn just as much money. But instead of saying "the project went over budget", they'd say "we executed a strategic pivot." Instead of employees "stagnating", employees would launch all sorts of initiatives and then abandon them after getting promoted. Instead of maintaining legacy systems for decades, teams would turn down systems so that employees can work on shinier greenfield projects, leaving users in the lurch. I do not oppose government efficiency. I support reforms to identify and eliminate waste in government. Unfortunately that's not what DOGE is doing.
- mrcsharp 2y ago
  > But instead of saying "the project went over budget", they'd say "we executed a strategic pivot." Yeah, politicians already do this. They use different words but to the same effect. I am not going to pretend I have the ultimate solution to all of this, but the idea that government employees get to sit there, do bare minimum for the entirety of their careers, and without any desire to improve anything for the sake of the people they serve (because clearly they forgot they work for the citizens of the country in which said government operates) is just so wrong. Maybe we deserve to live in mediocrity. You can, at least, vote out a congress, house, or a parliament member if they are mediocre and not doing much (doesn't always happen but the option exists). Government employees are un-elected (technically) and get to spend their entire life in a "stable" job regardless of their performance. Is this status quo actually good for the country?
  - kweingar 2y ago
    If you want private sector work ethic, you gotta pay private sector salaries. (Many federal employees have a better work ethic than the average private sector worker. But you can't make that an expectation if you're paying less than they could make elsewhere.)