9 ms·

> you see, plain as day, this as an attempt at silencing unfavorable speech. Of course it is. But there's a huge difference between making a foreigner leave, a

> you see, plain as day, this as an attempt at silencing unfavorable speech. Of course it is. But there's a huge difference between making a foreigner leave, and sentencing a citizen. Any foreigner can be denied entry to a country for any and no reason whatsoever, without any due process. So a foreigner's "right" to stay in a country sits very loosely.

michh 2y ago
He has (or had) permanent resident status. On a path to becoming a citizen. I think ‘foreigner’ does not accurately reflect that.
- carlosjobim 2y ago
  I think the word "foreigner" is perfectly correct. The difference is that as a foreigner, you have chosen to come to another country – among hundreds to choose from. As a native citizen, you haven't made any such choice and you might not be able to even if you wanted to.
  - immibis 2y ago
    If I have the choice to leave my home country or not, and I choose to stay, am I then a foreigner?
shadowgovt 2y ago
> But there's a huge difference between making a foreigner leave, and sentencing a citizen Not nearly as huge as one wants it to be, especially when the current executive is experimenting legally with citizenship revocation. You divide human beings under your jurisdiction into wide categories with hugely unequal rights and the incentives are heavy for rulers to remove the inconvenient in their society by reclassifying them. It's much safer for citizen and non-citizen alike to strongly protect the non-citizen in your borders.
peppers-ghost 2y ago
The constitution does not only apply to citizens. If you're in the US you are supposed to have freedom of speech.
- carlosjobim 2y ago
  And outside the US this wouldn't even be a discussion, because you don't have freedom of speech. That's why people consider him a victim for being kicked out.
  - thunderfork 2y ago
    [dead]
frenchyatwork 2y ago
> Any foreigner can be denied entry to a country for any and no reason whatsoever That's a completely different thing than what happened here. Those are the rules, everyone knows that, and acts accordingly. The biggest problem in the US right now, is that the government isn't being ruled by it's own laws (sort-of). That's what's meant by a "constitutional crisis". If the US government changed the rules to allow non-citizens to be arrested & held without warrants, then that would a different kind of thing. It would be a little totalitarian, but not a breakdown of the rule of law. Note, I said sort-of above because the laws are written in such away as to be somewhat vague so that some people claim the government is acting legally.
deathanatos 2y ago
> there's a huge difference between making a foreigner leave, and sentencing a citizen The White House has shown open contempt for the judicial and legislative branches. Why do you think they'd stop, simply because the person they've chosen to make an example of is a citizen? But fine, he's a foreigner. What's so hard about the human right of due process, here? Serve the warrant. Appear in court. Argue the case that is, according to those in favor of yeeting this guy out the country, so blindingly obvious.
- deathanatos 2y ago
  > Why do you think they'd stop, simply because the person they've chosen to make an example of is a citizen? The ink was barely dry on my own comment: > President Donald Trump’s administration asked the Supreme Court in a series of emergency appeals Thursday to allow him to move forward with plans to end birthright citizenship Due process must be enforced.

michh 2y ago

He has (or had) permanent resident status. On a path to becoming a citizen. I think ‘foreigner’ does not accurately reflect that.

carlosjobim 2y ago
I think the word "foreigner" is perfectly correct. The difference is that as a foreigner, you have chosen to come to another country – among hundreds to choose from. As a native citizen, you haven't made any such choice and you might not be able to even if you wanted to.
- immibis 2y ago
  If I have the choice to leave my home country or not, and I choose to stay, am I then a foreigner?

shadowgovt 2y ago

> But there's a huge difference between making a foreigner leave, and sentencing a citizen Not nearly as huge as one wants it to be, especially when the current executive is experimenting legally with citizenship revocation. You divide human beings under your jurisdiction into wide categories with hugely unequal rights and the incentives are heavy for rulers to remove the inconvenient in their society by reclassifying them. It's much safer for citizen and non-citizen alike to strongly protect the non-citizen in your borders.

peppers-ghost 2y ago

The constitution does not only apply to citizens. If you're in the US you are supposed to have freedom of speech.

carlosjobim 2y ago
And outside the US this wouldn't even be a discussion, because you don't have freedom of speech. That's why people consider him a victim for being kicked out.
- thunderfork 2y ago
  [dead]

frenchyatwork 2y ago

> Any foreigner can be denied entry to a country for any and no reason whatsoever That's a completely different thing than what happened here. Those are the rules, everyone knows that, and acts accordingly. The biggest problem in the US right now, is that the government isn't being ruled by it's own laws (sort-of). That's what's meant by a "constitutional crisis". If the US government changed the rules to allow non-citizens to be arrested & held without warrants, then that would a different kind of thing. It would be a little totalitarian, but not a breakdown of the rule of law. Note, I said sort-of above because the laws are written in such away as to be somewhat vague so that some people claim the government is acting legally.

deathanatos 2y ago

> there's a huge difference between making a foreigner leave, and sentencing a citizen The White House has shown open contempt for the judicial and legislative branches. Why do you think they'd stop, simply because the person they've chosen to make an example of is a citizen? But fine, he's a foreigner. What's so hard about the human right of due process, here? Serve the warrant. Appear in court. Argue the case that is, according to those in favor of yeeting this guy out the country, so blindingly obvious.

deathanatos 2y ago
> Why do you think they'd stop, simply because the person they've chosen to make an example of is a citizen? The ink was barely dry on my own comment: > President Donald Trump’s administration asked the Supreme Court in a series of emergency appeals Thursday to allow him to move forward with plans to end birthright citizenship Due process must be enforced.