4 ms·

It is an indictment on the state of the web that regardless of Mozilla's missteps, Firefox remains the best choice for a secure, open-source web browser that is

It is an indictment on the state of the web that regardless of Mozilla's missteps, Firefox remains the best choice for a secure, open-source web browser that isn't another chromium reskin.

ramon156 2y ago
I don't get the public "step down" that people are taking from using Firefox. How many users are actually switching? I doubt it's much. Many are audible about it, though. Yes browsers share your data, it's a browser... Firefox is not doing much worse than chromium browsers
- neurobashing 2y ago
  the point is not that firefox is "not doing much worse than chromium browsers". the point is that they were founded upon principles of not doing that
- mfro 2y ago
  I switched. I have been on the fence for some time now, what with the pocket nagware and the various 'sponsored' features showing up in FF. Very easy for me to start using librewolf. It even seems to be faster.
- sshine 2y ago
  I switched on mobile and on MacOS. I intend to switch on Linux soon. > Yes browsers share your data, it's a browser... No, my software does not betray me. If money could buy better software, I’d spend it. Unfortunately, commercial end-user software (and SaaSS) almost always has deep ties with advertising. I don’t mind crash reporting. I don’t mind opt-in telemetry for QA. There is no justification for telemetry by default, not informing of the extent, using it for advertisement, and selling your data as payment for use of software. Companies that figured out that a steady source of ad revenue beats subscription money will always compromise their customers. I don’t want that. And Firefox is now in the category of software that cannot be trusted until a worthy steward of a fork steps up. In the meantime, I’m using Orion by Kagi until I have a non-WebKit alternative.
- chneu 2y ago
  I switched after years of annoyances with mozilla.
- spudlyo 2y ago
  I also switched from Firefox to LibreWolf, both on Linux and on macOS. I'll likely use the latest Chrome just for banking and other high security tasks, but for my normal browsing LibreWolf seems to work fine.
- mimasama 2y ago
  > Yes browsers share your data, it's a browser... That's not the problem people have with Firefox. One of the issues right now is that there are people who have intentionally opted-in to sharing "technical data" to Mozilla for the sole purpose of improving the browser, when in fact, it's not just for that but also for improving ad-tech which was never an intent those power users had in mind: https://www.quippd.com/writing/2025/03/12/mozilla-has-been-sharing-aggregated-firefox-data-with-advertisers-since-2017-when-it-enabled-telemetry-by-default.html https://www.quippd.com/writing/2025/03/12/mozilla-has-been-s...
jimbob45 2y ago
You can’t get an OSS team to fix vulns in a meaningful amount of time, let alone research them. Waterfox/Palemoon stay months behind the official branch and are always vulnerable.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- MrAlex94 2y ago
  Waterfox is not months behind? We follow ESR releases fairly promptly.
INTPenis 2y ago
Big corporations on the w3c board, and their control of the largest platforms, have contributed to the enshitification of the web by making web standards move just as fast as Windows APIs or Office formats. Making it much harder for open source volunteer driven projects to keep up. I compare an open source project trying to make a browser to an open source project trying to keep up with MS Office formats or Windows graphics APIs. It requires a lot of resources. And there is no global resolution to this as long as certain nations allow rampant unchecked capitalism and innovation under the sole supervision of the profit driven corporations themselves. Because they will forever keep inventing new standards that they launch on their platforms and become ubiquitous to end users.
- sshine 2y ago
  Netscape / Firefox once broke the browser market. We need a hero.
  - astrobe_ 2y ago
    Modern bad guys kill heroes in the womb. We need a safe harbor outside of the WWW for things that actually need nothing more than HTML 1.0. And be prepared to do without the wonderful services and contents that are "offered" by big corps "for free".
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
paulryanrogers 2y ago
Perhaps more an indictment of failed regulators who have allowed these mega corporations to entrench a single browser engine, steer web standards, and consolidate so many of the social destinations on the web.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

It is an indictment on the state of the web that regardless of Mozilla's missteps, Firefox remains the best choice for a secure, open-source web browser that isn't another chromium reskin.

ramon156 2y ago

I don't get the public "step down" that people are taking from using Firefox. How many users are actually switching? I doubt it's much. Many are audible about it, though. Yes browsers share your data, it's a browser... Firefox is not doing much worse than chromium browsers

neurobashing 2y ago
the point is not that firefox is "not doing much worse than chromium browsers". the point is that they were founded upon principles of not doing that
mfro 2y ago
I switched. I have been on the fence for some time now, what with the pocket nagware and the various 'sponsored' features showing up in FF. Very easy for me to start using librewolf. It even seems to be faster.
sshine 2y ago
I switched on mobile and on MacOS. I intend to switch on Linux soon. > Yes browsers share your data, it's a browser... No, my software does not betray me. If money could buy better software, I’d spend it. Unfortunately, commercial end-user software (and SaaSS) almost always has deep ties with advertising. I don’t mind crash reporting. I don’t mind opt-in telemetry for QA. There is no justification for telemetry by default, not informing of the extent, using it for advertisement, and selling your data as payment for use of software. Companies that figured out that a steady source of ad revenue beats subscription money will always compromise their customers. I don’t want that. And Firefox is now in the category of software that cannot be trusted until a worthy steward of a fork steps up. In the meantime, I’m using Orion by Kagi until I have a non-WebKit alternative.
chneu 2y ago
I switched after years of annoyances with mozilla.
spudlyo 2y ago
I also switched from Firefox to LibreWolf, both on Linux and on macOS. I'll likely use the latest Chrome just for banking and other high security tasks, but for my normal browsing LibreWolf seems to work fine.
mimasama 2y ago
> Yes browsers share your data, it's a browser... That's not the problem people have with Firefox. One of the issues right now is that there are people who have intentionally opted-in to sharing "technical data" to Mozilla for the sole purpose of improving the browser, when in fact, it's not just for that but also for improving ad-tech which was never an intent those power users had in mind: https://www.quippd.com/writing/2025/03/12/mozilla-has-been-sharing-aggregated-firefox-data-with-advertisers-since-2017-when-it-enabled-telemetry-by-default.html https://www.quippd.com/writing/2025/03/12/mozilla-has-been-s...

jimbob45 2y ago

You can’t get an OSS team to fix vulns in a meaningful amount of time, let alone research them. Waterfox/Palemoon stay months behind the official branch and are always vulnerable.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
MrAlex94 2y ago
Waterfox is not months behind? We follow ESR releases fairly promptly.

INTPenis 2y ago

Big corporations on the w3c board, and their control of the largest platforms, have contributed to the enshitification of the web by making web standards move just as fast as Windows APIs or Office formats. Making it much harder for open source volunteer driven projects to keep up. I compare an open source project trying to make a browser to an open source project trying to keep up with MS Office formats or Windows graphics APIs. It requires a lot of resources. And there is no global resolution to this as long as certain nations allow rampant unchecked capitalism and innovation under the sole supervision of the profit driven corporations themselves. Because they will forever keep inventing new standards that they launch on their platforms and become ubiquitous to end users.

sshine 2y ago
Netscape / Firefox once broke the browser market. We need a hero.
- astrobe_ 2y ago
  Modern bad guys kill heroes in the womb. We need a safe harbor outside of the WWW for things that actually need nothing more than HTML 1.0. And be prepared to do without the wonderful services and contents that are "offered" by big corps "for free".
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]

paulryanrogers 2y ago

Perhaps more an indictment of failed regulators who have allowed these mega corporations to entrench a single browser engine, steer web standards, and consolidate so many of the social destinations on the web.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]