4 ms·

It is not just political/cultural reasons. There are lots of other EV cars in Europe now (including both European, Korean and Chinese brands). Tesla has also go

It is not just political/cultural reasons. There are lots of other EV cars in Europe now (including both European, Korean and Chinese brands). Tesla has also gotten a bad reputation regarding build-quality and service lately, and Tesla's big sudden price reductions in 2023/2024 meant that the vehicles lost a lot of resale value. But yes; Tesla's primary remaining competitive advantage was its brand -- which Musk has done an amazing job at eroding lately.

Gud 2y ago
Tesla’s build quality was always in doubt but people were willing to overlook this fact. Now only the most ardent fanatics who live in Elon’s reality distortion field, of which I doubt there are many due to his deeply flawed personality, will buy his car. We are witnessing Elon’s house of cards coming down. Remember Elon Musk has massive loans with Tesla as collateral and a collapse of Tesla’s share price will absolutely affect his other ventures. Unfortunately probably SoaceX as well. But think medium term this could be a good thing - new space is thriving and do we really need a gorilla in the room?
- piokoch 2y ago
  Frankly speaking, I read about Musk going bankrupt every month since Tesla's were introduced, than SpaceX was supposed to sank Musk (until it turned out that it and Virgin "disrupted" space industry), than Twitter purchase, now we have Cybertruck. Not being a fun of Musk as a person (as I am not fun of B. Gates or S. Jobs) I do appreciate that he delivered a breakthrough in at least two industries that were considered staled, unapproachable and closed to existing players (space and automoto). So I will give that Cybertruck a benefit of doubt.
  - Gud 2y ago
    The fundamentals have changed. Sales are tanking. I’m guessing the share price is being propped up by some financial shenanigans and retail investors. FWIW I was an early investor in TSLA, back in 2012. I made 30x my initial investment. I lived the company and was a big fan of Elon until something happened to his brain. I have observed this company for a long, long time.
    - joakleaf 2y ago
      Same as you, I think. Invested in 2013… I have sold more and more shares as the market cap reached ridiculous levels compared to other car companies, and as I felt Musk was over promising and under delivering more and more. He has mislead both investors and customers for years, but his recent behavior and statements have been, at the very least, odd. Even disregarding politics, I don’t believe that he is steering Tesla in the right direction, and he is not behaving as a responsible or serious CEO with a clear meaningful vision for the company, or as someone who even cares about it. Not sure if something happened to his brain, but it doesn’t feel normal, calm or rational. I sold the last shares I had this winter.
      - Zigurd 2y ago
        There was a guy who got rich selling pillows. Has anyone survived that journey?
- joakleaf 2y ago
  I think, the consensus is that Tesla would have to be at least as low as around $100-$120/share before there is a margin call on Musk's debt (with Tesla stock as collateral). So it will still have to drop 50% from current levels for the house of cards to start collapsing. But I guess nobody outside Musk and the bankers know the actual price point. Is it possible -- Yes, but not super likely in the near term.
  - Gud 2y ago
    Why not? Even at 50% of its current valuation, Tesla’s market cap would still be twice as high as Toyotas. Doesn’t sound reasonable to me, considering their sales are tanking…
    - jqpabc123 2y ago
      Tesla is outrageously overpriced as an auto manufacturer. Most other manufacturers currently have a P/E ratio around 10. Tesla is around 120. Yes, you read that right --- about 12X higher than the competition. To justify it's current valuation, Tesla would have to capture a majority of the global market and become the world's most popular car brand. It currently has around 12% of the global market. In my opinion, what Tesla has to offer just isn't that good and is being rapidly surpassed. https://electrek.co/2025/03/13/mercedes-cla-ev-finally-here-nearly-500-miles-range/ https://electrek.co/2025/03/13/mercedes-cla-ev-finally-here-...
      - joakleaf 2y ago
        The thing is that Tesla isn't priced as car marker, and hasn't been for a long time. People still also talk about Tesla as an AI-company, robot-inventor, battery and solar cell producer, and potential ride-hailing company. Like you, I don't think it makes sense, but apparently the market sees it differently. And until that perception changes, I don't think the valuation will drop to less than half.
        jqpabc123 2y ago
        The thing is that Tesla isn't priced as car marker, and hasn't been for a long time. The thing is that 90 percent of their revenue is from auto sales. https://stockdividendscreener.com/auto-manufacturers/tesla-quarterly-total-revenue-analysis/ https://stockdividendscreener.com/auto-manufacturers/tesla-q... Meanwhile, the majority of their stock price is pure hype.
archagon 2y ago
Perhaps Musk sees Tesla’s primary (only?) competitive advantage as essentially being the Gazprom of cars and/or electric energy in the MAGA USA. The president of the country already did a Tesla ad read on the White House lawn a few days ago.

Gud 2y ago

Tesla’s build quality was always in doubt but people were willing to overlook this fact. Now only the most ardent fanatics who live in Elon’s reality distortion field, of which I doubt there are many due to his deeply flawed personality, will buy his car. We are witnessing Elon’s house of cards coming down. Remember Elon Musk has massive loans with Tesla as collateral and a collapse of Tesla’s share price will absolutely affect his other ventures. Unfortunately probably SoaceX as well. But think medium term this could be a good thing - new space is thriving and do we really need a gorilla in the room?

piokoch 2y ago
Frankly speaking, I read about Musk going bankrupt every month since Tesla's were introduced, than SpaceX was supposed to sank Musk (until it turned out that it and Virgin "disrupted" space industry), than Twitter purchase, now we have Cybertruck. Not being a fun of Musk as a person (as I am not fun of B. Gates or S. Jobs) I do appreciate that he delivered a breakthrough in at least two industries that were considered staled, unapproachable and closed to existing players (space and automoto). So I will give that Cybertruck a benefit of doubt.
- Gud 2y ago
  The fundamentals have changed. Sales are tanking. I’m guessing the share price is being propped up by some financial shenanigans and retail investors. FWIW I was an early investor in TSLA, back in 2012. I made 30x my initial investment. I lived the company and was a big fan of Elon until something happened to his brain. I have observed this company for a long, long time.
  - joakleaf 2y ago
    Same as you, I think. Invested in 2013… I have sold more and more shares as the market cap reached ridiculous levels compared to other car companies, and as I felt Musk was over promising and under delivering more and more. He has mislead both investors and customers for years, but his recent behavior and statements have been, at the very least, odd. Even disregarding politics, I don’t believe that he is steering Tesla in the right direction, and he is not behaving as a responsible or serious CEO with a clear meaningful vision for the company, or as someone who even cares about it. Not sure if something happened to his brain, but it doesn’t feel normal, calm or rational. I sold the last shares I had this winter.
    - Zigurd 2y ago
      There was a guy who got rich selling pillows. Has anyone survived that journey?
joakleaf 2y ago
I think, the consensus is that Tesla would have to be at least as low as around $100-$120/share before there is a margin call on Musk's debt (with Tesla stock as collateral). So it will still have to drop 50% from current levels for the house of cards to start collapsing. But I guess nobody outside Musk and the bankers know the actual price point. Is it possible -- Yes, but not super likely in the near term.
- Gud 2y ago
  Why not? Even at 50% of its current valuation, Tesla’s market cap would still be twice as high as Toyotas. Doesn’t sound reasonable to me, considering their sales are tanking…
  - jqpabc123 2y ago
    Tesla is outrageously overpriced as an auto manufacturer. Most other manufacturers currently have a P/E ratio around 10. Tesla is around 120. Yes, you read that right --- about 12X higher than the competition. To justify it's current valuation, Tesla would have to capture a majority of the global market and become the world's most popular car brand. It currently has around 12% of the global market. In my opinion, what Tesla has to offer just isn't that good and is being rapidly surpassed. https://electrek.co/2025/03/13/mercedes-cla-ev-finally-here-nearly-500-miles-range/ https://electrek.co/2025/03/13/mercedes-cla-ev-finally-here-...
    - joakleaf 2y ago
      The thing is that Tesla isn't priced as car marker, and hasn't been for a long time. People still also talk about Tesla as an AI-company, robot-inventor, battery and solar cell producer, and potential ride-hailing company. Like you, I don't think it makes sense, but apparently the market sees it differently. And until that perception changes, I don't think the valuation will drop to less than half.
      - jqpabc123 2y ago
        The thing is that Tesla isn't priced as car marker, and hasn't been for a long time. The thing is that 90 percent of their revenue is from auto sales. https://stockdividendscreener.com/auto-manufacturers/tesla-quarterly-total-revenue-analysis/ https://stockdividendscreener.com/auto-manufacturers/tesla-q... Meanwhile, the majority of their stock price is pure hype.

archagon 2y ago

Perhaps Musk sees Tesla’s primary (only?) competitive advantage as essentially being the Gazprom of cars and/or electric energy in the MAGA USA. The president of the country already did a Tesla ad read on the White House lawn a few days ago.