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Tesla is done in Europe for political/cultural reasons. Tesla is done in Asia for competitive reasons but I think that Cybertrucks could be the nail in the coff

Tesla is done in Europe for political/cultural reasons. Tesla is done in Asia for competitive reasons but I think that Cybertrucks could be the nail in the coffin for even the most MAGA brainwashed Elon fan, once they drive it…

gmac 2y ago
> Tesla is done in Europe for political/cultural reasons Yes, and those political/cultural reasons are: let's not subsidise people who repeatedly and in public make unambiguous Nazi salutes. TBH it would be nice if those sentiments were spread a bit more widely than Europe.
- belter 2y ago
  It would sell great in Hungary...if they could afford it...
  - belter 2y ago
    "Elon Musk praised Viktor Orbán – and not just any way" - https://mandiner.hu/belfold/2025/02/orban-viktort-meltatta-elon-musk-nem-is-akarhogyan https://mandiner.hu/belfold/2025/02/orban-viktort-meltatta-e...
- pyrale 2y ago
  The sad part is that his nazi salutes don’t even top the list...
- mytailorisrich 2y ago
  Absolutely, people in Europe want nothing to do with the Nazis. That's why they drive Volkswagen.
  - mavhc 2y ago
    Seems like every car company that wasn't electric only was polluting us more on purpose https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_emissions_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_emissions_scandal so they're all evil
  - rad_gruchalski 2y ago
    Or Fords for that matter.
  - wqaatwt 2y ago
    By that standard pretty much every major German company established before the 50s is somehow “nazi”. Then again I don’t see how can someone seriously say stuff like that, in what way is modern VW related to nazis?
    - mytailorisrich 2y ago
      Just pointing out the idiocy of the current situation. VW was actually founded by the Nazis and even the name is not neutral, so if "activists" want to use the label "Nazi car" then surely that is as close as it gets... This is not serious stuff, indeed.
      - zfg 2y ago
        Well, has anyone from Volkswagen done fascist salutes at a political rally lately: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smQNNo2a9xc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smQNNo2a9xc And was anyone from Volkswagen making excuses for Hitler yesterday: https://meidasnews.com/news/elon-musk-retweet-hitler-didnt-murder-millions-of-people-public-sector-workers-did https://meidasnews.com/news/elon-musk-retweet-hitler-didnt-m...
      - rsynnott 2y ago
        VW is a public company, and everyone who was involved with that is dead. The name is different, the ownership is different, the principals are different - its ties to its Nazi past are beyond tenuous. Meanwhile the _current CEO_ of Tesla is flouncing around doing Nazi salutes. Like, if you can't see the difference, then I dunno what to tell you. Ford might be a better example, as there's been some continuity of ownership/control there, but, well, Henry Ford is, thankfully, extremely dead. Again, that does make a difference.
      - aisenik 2y ago
        It will be a comparable situation once antifascists liberate the USA, political and capital reconstruction with strong de-neonazification removes the ideology from influence and power, and after a couple generations of global veterans and victims spitting at the name, pop culture jokes and ad-fueled media rehabilitation. Until then, I don't think it's fair to whitewash the Tesla brand with the brush that allowed the successful rehabilitation of German and Japanese industry. Elon Musk is already the eugenicist face of the destruction of USAID (>1M deaths/ year) and positioned to deploy an orbital constellation of weaponized satellites with offensive capabilities (Golden Dome). Do we really need to play this one out? It ends with tens or hundreds of millions dead, has the pursuit of money blinded so many of us to our shared humanity?
  - zyx321 2y ago
    As a German: I'll gladly consider a Tesla again after Elon gets the old Nuremberg neck tie like all the other fascists.
aswanson 2y ago
Tesla is done in the US as well. The brand damage is irreparable at this point with at least 50 percent of the population.
- porphyra 2y ago
  I went to Santana Row in the Bay Area and the Tesla store was very popular. Most regular people aren't terminally online and constantly worried about politics.
  - aswanson 2y ago
    You don't have to be terminally online to see nazi salutes at national political conventions or people protesting and pelting cars & stores nationwide.
    - lotsofpulp 2y ago
      Nazis on one hand, stealerships on the other. What a terrible market.
      - porphyra 2y ago
        You can buy a Rivian or Polestar without dealing with dealerships. You could also buy a Hyundai Ioniq 5 or 6 directly on Amazon (even though the implementation still goes through dealerships in the backend) [1]. [1] https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/retail/amazon-autos-buy-car-online https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/retail/amazon-autos-buy-car...
        lotsofpulp 2y ago
        I knew Rivian did, but I don't consider them since the cars are more than double the cost of Model 3 and Model Y, plus who knows how long that business exists since it still doesn't earn money. Same with Polestar, they are gambles that rich people can afford to make. I didn't know Hyundai sold online, but that's good news. If only their prices were $20k lower. There is no way I am paying $55k+ for a Hyundai, especially without a $7,500 tax credit compared to a Tesla. I just checked Tesla inventory, and they have 3 row (5 adults + 2 kids) 2024 Model Y AWD Long Ranges for $39k to $41k (with tax credit) on their website right now.
lnsru 2y ago
Model 3/y are still the best priced electrical vehicles on the market. There are enough poor people that can’t afford the new Mercedes CLA and must drive model 3 instead. I wouldn’t invite Elon for lunch, but I wouldn’t invite German brand managers either.
- VincentEvans 2y ago
  As an apparently “poor person” owner of model 3 bought used, who it seems “must drive” it - I dislike the whiff of elitism in your post. What must your world look like that you consider a 30K off-lease car a poor person’s last resort vehicle…. It might surprise you - as having never owned an EV before - I turned to Tesla because I thought of it as buying a trend-setting vehicle from a pioneering car maker that envisioned what next generation transportation might be unanchored to tradition - rather than risking buying a half-baked me-too attempt at a market-share catchup from a legacy brand. Whether I was ultimately correct in these expectations is a different conversation, but I think one might see how I may have thought that knowing little about EV?
  - anon22981 2y ago
    The point is still kind of valid, it is a decently affordable EV compared to many other ”luxury” EVs. They also had (have?) very cheap payment options available. I’d suspect the expenses are a big factor in the purchasing decision. edit: obviously it’s not a car for poor people as it is still very expensive. I understand your point too.
  - lnsru 2y ago
    I am driving model y as a poor person. Can’t afford Skoda Enyaq or ID.4 or ID.7 or the nice BMW iX. There are no cheaper cars than Tesla that can be used as a first and the last car in a household. It was clear to me since the incident with the English diver in 2018 which direction Elon took. I was observing him very carefully as a techno messiah before, very interesting personality and his companies. I wasn’t fan, it was just something new and never seen before. And I had a moral dilemma back then. Support Elon buying Tesla or pay 15000€ more for Skoda… I just went with Elon. And now I am cool with that. Remember dieselgate? VW managers paid a company to gas apes with diesel fumes in US (because such tests are illegal in EU). God knows what did elsewhere. VW isn’t better by any means, just less press coverage.
joakleaf 2y ago
It is not just political/cultural reasons. There are lots of other EV cars in Europe now (including both European, Korean and Chinese brands). Tesla has also gotten a bad reputation regarding build-quality and service lately, and Tesla's big sudden price reductions in 2023/2024 meant that the vehicles lost a lot of resale value. But yes; Tesla's primary remaining competitive advantage was its brand -- which Musk has done an amazing job at eroding lately.
- Gud 2y ago
  Tesla’s build quality was always in doubt but people were willing to overlook this fact. Now only the most ardent fanatics who live in Elon’s reality distortion field, of which I doubt there are many due to his deeply flawed personality, will buy his car. We are witnessing Elon’s house of cards coming down. Remember Elon Musk has massive loans with Tesla as collateral and a collapse of Tesla’s share price will absolutely affect his other ventures. Unfortunately probably SoaceX as well. But think medium term this could be a good thing - new space is thriving and do we really need a gorilla in the room?
  - piokoch 2y ago
    Frankly speaking, I read about Musk going bankrupt every month since Tesla's were introduced, than SpaceX was supposed to sank Musk (until it turned out that it and Virgin "disrupted" space industry), than Twitter purchase, now we have Cybertruck. Not being a fun of Musk as a person (as I am not fun of B. Gates or S. Jobs) I do appreciate that he delivered a breakthrough in at least two industries that were considered staled, unapproachable and closed to existing players (space and automoto). So I will give that Cybertruck a benefit of doubt.
    - Gud 2y ago
      The fundamentals have changed. Sales are tanking. I’m guessing the share price is being propped up by some financial shenanigans and retail investors. FWIW I was an early investor in TSLA, back in 2012. I made 30x my initial investment. I lived the company and was a big fan of Elon until something happened to his brain. I have observed this company for a long, long time.
concordDance 2y ago
I'd want reports from randomly sampled Cybertruck users before agreeing to that last clause... Reports of Tesla cars being awful and full of problems have been around for a decade, but the people I've directly spoken to like their Teslas, though none own a Cybertruck.
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  I must have talked to 20+ Model Y owners by now, and no one has regretted it. So much so that I gave up my CarPlay requirement and bought a Model Y because the price and reputation (within my circles) was so good. And 6 months in, I cannot complain. I would have spent $15k+ more on a Highlander or RX and I don't think I would have gotten any extra utility (other than CarPlay), and I would have gotten much worse torque. And I would have had to wait on a list for when Toyota randomly sent the color and model we wanted, and we would have had to bat down attempts by the dealer to charge more, and spend 3+ hours at the dealership.
vishnugupta 2y ago
> Tesla is done in Europe for political/cultural reasons I don’t know anything about Tesla or EVs or Europe. But is there a precedence to this? That a good product went extinct because of political/cultural reasons?
- fredoralive 2y ago
  Not quite the same, but in the UK there was a chain of high street jewellers called Ratners. In the early ‘90s Gerald Ratner, the founder, made some jokes about the low quality of the products at a talk for the Institute of Directors, including famously comparing them negatively to a prawn sandwich from Marks and Spencer. Unfortunately the talk was videotaped, and was all over the news shortly after. It killed the brand, and lost Ratner his job, although it didn’t kill the company as they owned other brands like H Samuel that they pivoted to.
- Renaud 2y ago
  Tesla car’s don’t have a great reputation for quality or service. They were among the first and the cars were good enough to persuade people, but there are many alternatives now. People are less likely to pay a premium for Tesla. And the brand is irremediably damaged by Elon’s polarising politics. Being off-putting to a large part of your market is bound to have negative effects on your sales.
- stephc_int13 2y ago
  Tesla is in a very peculiar position as an automaker, P/E ratio (price of the stock compared to earnings) is extremely optimist regarding the potential, with self-driving, robots and overall market dominance. But all of that is not real, it is, at best speculative, and the cars themselves are not great, especially when compared to other EVs. The huge valuation of Tesla will crumble dramatically as soon as investors stop believing the promises. And having poor/declining or even stagnating sales is very likely to trigger some close scrutiny and doubts.
adamgamble 2y ago
I own a cybertruck and completely love it. It’s wacky and fun and it gives me all the tech I wanted, plus I can use it like a truck when needed. I actually think it’s opposite, once people drive it they realize it’s really compelling. It does have some minor build issues that are fixed for free under warranty. Then again so does my gmc.
- bluedevil2k 2y ago
  Minor build issues? They had a total recall. Fixed for free? Yes, if you can wait weeks for the fix. https://www.fastcompany.com/91109879/a-timeline-of-tesla-cybertruck-problems-from-rust-to-hail-damage-to-pedal-recalls https://www.fastcompany.com/91109879/a-timeline-of-tesla-cyb... https://www.cybertruckownersclub.com/forum/threads/waiting-on-cybertruck-repair-since-02-24-24-fixed-07-23-24.16618/ https://www.cybertruckownersclub.com/forum/threads/waiting-o...
  - mavhc 2y ago
    https://www.cars.com/research/ford-f_150/recalls/ https://www.cars.com/research/ford-f_150/recalls/ 109 recalls
    - FollowingTheDao 2y ago
      That is so misleading. Those F-150 recalls go back to 2003. The Cyberstuck has only been out a year.
    - chneu 2y ago
      lol not even close to an accurate comparison. The F-series has 20+ years on the CT. Also, quite a few of those F-series recalls are for very specific engine configurations. Many of those recalls are also for relatively minor things. Some of those recalls are for labels not being in the right location.
      - mavhc 2y ago
        Same with Cybertruck, Font size is wrong, tpms light doesn't stay on if you power cycle the truck, a mirror camera opens slowly all minor software fixes, which leaves "used the wrong glue" twice, inverter problem, and windscreen motor overheating. Point is ever car has loads of recalls, some don't get clicks so aren't reported much
LinuxBender 2y ago
No need for brain programming. Some of them will have seen Cody Detwiler WhistlinDiesel test the CT. [1][2] He's of course overly dramatic and meant to be entertainment but I personally wish he would test every vehicle and should be the standard for durability testing. There are plenty of other Youtubers running into problems with the Cyber..... falling apart when doing things I did with my 80's Chevy without issue. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_scBKKHi7WQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_scBKKHi7WQ [video][10 mins] [2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK_EJ3DyiiA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK_EJ3DyiiA [video][21 mins]
- tim333 2y ago
  There was a follow up to see how much down force on the tow hook was needed to break the frame https://youtu.be/ubUXNSWGth0?t=419 https://youtu.be/ubUXNSWGth0?t=419 was 10,500 lbs, done by JerryRigEverything
  - LinuxBender 2y ago
    I enjoy his channel. He talks in one of his videos about the regret of getting a Cybertruck and putting his company logo on it now that it's so political. I assume others are probably having similar regrets. In reference to the frame I can not even imagine breaking a frame. All my offroad and utility vehicles have had a steel frames that at worst might bend if I go all whistlindiesel on it. A big enough pothole can put a lot of stress on a frame. To me personally it feels like there is some similarity between the Tesla design philosophies and the OceanGate Titan submersible both of which needed significantly more stress testing.
- chneu 2y ago
  whistlindiesel is one of the most annoying car-centered youtube creators. Dude constantly baits people into saying stuff and then he claims to be a victim to drum up support from his conservative followers. His script is so tired and predictable at this point. i'm not saying dont post his links or anything, just giving some perspective for HN folks who might not be familiar with his shtick.
lfsh 2y ago
I think the main reason Tesla became popular is range. The build qality has never been as good as other brands.
- Yeul 2y ago
  Tesla was the only EV that was somewhat affordable and the supercharger network was really good. In 2025 in my own country the Netherlands several Chinese companies have entered the market and there are non Tesla supercharger stations. We are now in the "tough competition" stage.
  - lfsh 2y ago
    "Tesla was the only EV that was somewhat affordable" I don't think this is true. For example the Nissan Leaf has always been more affordable. But the range of the first Leaf models was very low. Tesla was the first EV company that offered a range comparible to ICE cars.
    - ben_w 2y ago
      Hard to tease the two apart. When Tesla was new, EV range was inherently expensive, the original Leaf was only able to be affordable because the battery was small. Now, batteries are so cheap this is no longer a trade-off; also why new Leaf models are longer range.
  - zfg 2y ago
    All brands have been able to use Tesla chargers in Europe for years now. Tesla is just one charging network operator out of many.
Yeul 2y ago
Maybe Musk can convince Congress to put subsidies on Tesla. Making it the American Trabant.
nodoll 2y ago
>MAGA I haven't seen anything that would tell me that these are very smart people. But what it tells me is that they are just NOT very very dumb.
t0bia_s 2y ago
I can spot Tesla cars almost daily in big European cities. I never saw Cybertruck and I'm glad for that, because this vehicle has tawdry design.
- davidguetta 2y ago
  Its primarily the size which is a problem. Cybertruck fits only European highway basically
- shagie 2y ago
  It's banned in some places for vehicle safety issues. https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterlyon/2025/02/20/tesla-cybertruck-banned-in-the-uk-due-to-safety-issues/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterlyon/2025/02/20/tesla-cybe... There's size and weight. Rounded edges for any protruding parts. Crumple zones. Light bar has visibility and illumination issues. The 0-60 mph speed of 2.6 seconds combined with a weight of 6000 lbs puts its torque in super car territory. --- I doubt you'll see one outside people playing with the rules at the edge of legality. https://www.jalopnik.com/a-barely-modified-tesla-cybertruck-has-made-it-to-europ-1851673961/ https://www.jalopnik.com/a-barely-modified-tesla-cybertruck-...
VaderLied 2y ago
[flagged]
DamnInteresting 2y ago
> I think that Cybertrucks could be the nail in the coffin for even the most MAGA brainwashed Elon fan, once they drive it I have a friend who owns a Cybertruck, and he let me give it a try. There are many, many, many legitimate and damning criticisms of Cybertruck, Tesla, and Musk, but the Cybertruck driving experience (on pavement) is not one of them. It is crazy fast, and surprisingly nimble with its 4-wheel drive-by-wire steering. It is dangerous and stupid, but it isn't boring. Speaking as a lifelong driving enthusiast, I would never buy one, but I'm glad I got to try one.
- belter 2y ago
  > It is dangerous and stupid/ Deadly for pedestrians, cyclists and other small cars on the road. The perfect creation out of the wet dream of a self-absorbed billionaire.
rasz 2y ago
>once they drive it… No, and saying that makes me think you never tried. Its a fun rocketship. External size, being shaped specifically to kill pedestrians, cracking plastic fantastic components, weight related accelerated wear, falling off panels and finally nazi association are its main problems.
belter 2y ago
"Multiple Teslas Set On Fire in Germany" - https://www.newsweek.com/tesla-vehicles-set-fire-berlin-germany-elon-musk-2044692 https://www.newsweek.com/tesla-vehicles-set-fire-berlin-germ...
archagon 2y ago
Let’s not forget that Europe has its own populist far right movements coming into power: Reform UK, National Rally, AfD, etc. etc. etc. If the equivalent of MAGA takes over the EU, would owning a Tesla become a virtue signal for the ~30% of people that support these politics?
_DeadFred_ 2y ago
94% of Germans won't buy a Tesla. https://electrek.co/2025/03/14/tesla-is-done-in-germany-94-say-they-wont-buy-a-tesla-car/ https://electrek.co/2025/03/14/tesla-is-done-in-germany-94-s... But on the plus side Ted Cruz is putting in work to bring their cool factor up https://x.com/tedcruz/status/1900588329609163164 https://x.com/tedcruz/status/1900588329609163164
amriksohata 2y ago
Not really, share price is just stabilising back to November levels pre-election. The trucks were never their staple income, and there is a new Juniper model coming out which has dropped their prices plus competition from chinese brands. If you look at overall global sales, they slowed in 2024 too.

gmac 2y ago

> Tesla is done in Europe for political/cultural reasons Yes, and those political/cultural reasons are: let's not subsidise people who repeatedly and in public make unambiguous Nazi salutes. TBH it would be nice if those sentiments were spread a bit more widely than Europe.

belter 2y ago
It would sell great in Hungary...if they could afford it...
- belter 2y ago
  "Elon Musk praised Viktor Orbán – and not just any way" - https://mandiner.hu/belfold/2025/02/orban-viktort-meltatta-elon-musk-nem-is-akarhogyan https://mandiner.hu/belfold/2025/02/orban-viktort-meltatta-e...
pyrale 2y ago
The sad part is that his nazi salutes don’t even top the list...
mytailorisrich 2y ago
Absolutely, people in Europe want nothing to do with the Nazis. That's why they drive Volkswagen.
- mavhc 2y ago
  Seems like every car company that wasn't electric only was polluting us more on purpose https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_emissions_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_emissions_scandal so they're all evil
- rad_gruchalski 2y ago
  Or Fords for that matter.
- wqaatwt 2y ago
  By that standard pretty much every major German company established before the 50s is somehow “nazi”. Then again I don’t see how can someone seriously say stuff like that, in what way is modern VW related to nazis?
  - mytailorisrich 2y ago
    Just pointing out the idiocy of the current situation. VW was actually founded by the Nazis and even the name is not neutral, so if "activists" want to use the label "Nazi car" then surely that is as close as it gets... This is not serious stuff, indeed.
    - zfg 2y ago
      Well, has anyone from Volkswagen done fascist salutes at a political rally lately: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smQNNo2a9xc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smQNNo2a9xc And was anyone from Volkswagen making excuses for Hitler yesterday: https://meidasnews.com/news/elon-musk-retweet-hitler-didnt-murder-millions-of-people-public-sector-workers-did https://meidasnews.com/news/elon-musk-retweet-hitler-didnt-m...
    - rsynnott 2y ago
      VW is a public company, and everyone who was involved with that is dead. The name is different, the ownership is different, the principals are different - its ties to its Nazi past are beyond tenuous. Meanwhile the _current CEO_ of Tesla is flouncing around doing Nazi salutes. Like, if you can't see the difference, then I dunno what to tell you. Ford might be a better example, as there's been some continuity of ownership/control there, but, well, Henry Ford is, thankfully, extremely dead. Again, that does make a difference.
    - aisenik 2y ago
      It will be a comparable situation once antifascists liberate the USA, political and capital reconstruction with strong de-neonazification removes the ideology from influence and power, and after a couple generations of global veterans and victims spitting at the name, pop culture jokes and ad-fueled media rehabilitation. Until then, I don't think it's fair to whitewash the Tesla brand with the brush that allowed the successful rehabilitation of German and Japanese industry. Elon Musk is already the eugenicist face of the destruction of USAID (>1M deaths/ year) and positioned to deploy an orbital constellation of weaponized satellites with offensive capabilities (Golden Dome). Do we really need to play this one out? It ends with tens or hundreds of millions dead, has the pursuit of money blinded so many of us to our shared humanity?
- zyx321 2y ago
  As a German: I'll gladly consider a Tesla again after Elon gets the old Nuremberg neck tie like all the other fascists.

aswanson 2y ago

Tesla is done in the US as well. The brand damage is irreparable at this point with at least 50 percent of the population.

porphyra 2y ago
I went to Santana Row in the Bay Area and the Tesla store was very popular. Most regular people aren't terminally online and constantly worried about politics.
- aswanson 2y ago
  You don't have to be terminally online to see nazi salutes at national political conventions or people protesting and pelting cars & stores nationwide.
  - lotsofpulp 2y ago
    Nazis on one hand, stealerships on the other. What a terrible market.
    - porphyra 2y ago
      You can buy a Rivian or Polestar without dealing with dealerships. You could also buy a Hyundai Ioniq 5 or 6 directly on Amazon (even though the implementation still goes through dealerships in the backend) [1]. [1] https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/retail/amazon-autos-buy-car-online https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/retail/amazon-autos-buy-car...
      - lotsofpulp 2y ago
        I knew Rivian did, but I don't consider them since the cars are more than double the cost of Model 3 and Model Y, plus who knows how long that business exists since it still doesn't earn money. Same with Polestar, they are gambles that rich people can afford to make. I didn't know Hyundai sold online, but that's good news. If only their prices were $20k lower. There is no way I am paying $55k+ for a Hyundai, especially without a $7,500 tax credit compared to a Tesla. I just checked Tesla inventory, and they have 3 row (5 adults + 2 kids) 2024 Model Y AWD Long Ranges for $39k to $41k (with tax credit) on their website right now.

lnsru 2y ago

Model 3/y are still the best priced electrical vehicles on the market. There are enough poor people that can’t afford the new Mercedes CLA and must drive model 3 instead. I wouldn’t invite Elon for lunch, but I wouldn’t invite German brand managers either.

VincentEvans 2y ago
As an apparently “poor person” owner of model 3 bought used, who it seems “must drive” it - I dislike the whiff of elitism in your post. What must your world look like that you consider a 30K off-lease car a poor person’s last resort vehicle…. It might surprise you - as having never owned an EV before - I turned to Tesla because I thought of it as buying a trend-setting vehicle from a pioneering car maker that envisioned what next generation transportation might be unanchored to tradition - rather than risking buying a half-baked me-too attempt at a market-share catchup from a legacy brand. Whether I was ultimately correct in these expectations is a different conversation, but I think one might see how I may have thought that knowing little about EV?
- anon22981 2y ago
  The point is still kind of valid, it is a decently affordable EV compared to many other ”luxury” EVs. They also had (have?) very cheap payment options available. I’d suspect the expenses are a big factor in the purchasing decision. edit: obviously it’s not a car for poor people as it is still very expensive. I understand your point too.
- lnsru 2y ago
  I am driving model y as a poor person. Can’t afford Skoda Enyaq or ID.4 or ID.7 or the nice BMW iX. There are no cheaper cars than Tesla that can be used as a first and the last car in a household. It was clear to me since the incident with the English diver in 2018 which direction Elon took. I was observing him very carefully as a techno messiah before, very interesting personality and his companies. I wasn’t fan, it was just something new and never seen before. And I had a moral dilemma back then. Support Elon buying Tesla or pay 15000€ more for Skoda… I just went with Elon. And now I am cool with that. Remember dieselgate? VW managers paid a company to gas apes with diesel fumes in US (because such tests are illegal in EU). God knows what did elsewhere. VW isn’t better by any means, just less press coverage.

joakleaf 2y ago

It is not just political/cultural reasons. There are lots of other EV cars in Europe now (including both European, Korean and Chinese brands). Tesla has also gotten a bad reputation regarding build-quality and service lately, and Tesla's big sudden price reductions in 2023/2024 meant that the vehicles lost a lot of resale value. But yes; Tesla's primary remaining competitive advantage was its brand -- which Musk has done an amazing job at eroding lately.

Gud 2y ago
Tesla’s build quality was always in doubt but people were willing to overlook this fact. Now only the most ardent fanatics who live in Elon’s reality distortion field, of which I doubt there are many due to his deeply flawed personality, will buy his car. We are witnessing Elon’s house of cards coming down. Remember Elon Musk has massive loans with Tesla as collateral and a collapse of Tesla’s share price will absolutely affect his other ventures. Unfortunately probably SoaceX as well. But think medium term this could be a good thing - new space is thriving and do we really need a gorilla in the room?
- piokoch 2y ago
  Frankly speaking, I read about Musk going bankrupt every month since Tesla's were introduced, than SpaceX was supposed to sank Musk (until it turned out that it and Virgin "disrupted" space industry), than Twitter purchase, now we have Cybertruck. Not being a fun of Musk as a person (as I am not fun of B. Gates or S. Jobs) I do appreciate that he delivered a breakthrough in at least two industries that were considered staled, unapproachable and closed to existing players (space and automoto). So I will give that Cybertruck a benefit of doubt.
  - Gud 2y ago
    The fundamentals have changed. Sales are tanking. I’m guessing the share price is being propped up by some financial shenanigans and retail investors. FWIW I was an early investor in TSLA, back in 2012. I made 30x my initial investment. I lived the company and was a big fan of Elon until something happened to his brain. I have observed this company for a long, long time.

concordDance 2y ago

I'd want reports from randomly sampled Cybertruck users before agreeing to that last clause... Reports of Tesla cars being awful and full of problems have been around for a decade, but the people I've directly spoken to like their Teslas, though none own a Cybertruck.

lotsofpulp 2y ago
I must have talked to 20+ Model Y owners by now, and no one has regretted it. So much so that I gave up my CarPlay requirement and bought a Model Y because the price and reputation (within my circles) was so good. And 6 months in, I cannot complain. I would have spent $15k+ more on a Highlander or RX and I don't think I would have gotten any extra utility (other than CarPlay), and I would have gotten much worse torque. And I would have had to wait on a list for when Toyota randomly sent the color and model we wanted, and we would have had to bat down attempts by the dealer to charge more, and spend 3+ hours at the dealership.

vishnugupta 2y ago

> Tesla is done in Europe for political/cultural reasons I don’t know anything about Tesla or EVs or Europe. But is there a precedence to this? That a good product went extinct because of political/cultural reasons?

fredoralive 2y ago
Not quite the same, but in the UK there was a chain of high street jewellers called Ratners. In the early ‘90s Gerald Ratner, the founder, made some jokes about the low quality of the products at a talk for the Institute of Directors, including famously comparing them negatively to a prawn sandwich from Marks and Spencer. Unfortunately the talk was videotaped, and was all over the news shortly after. It killed the brand, and lost Ratner his job, although it didn’t kill the company as they owned other brands like H Samuel that they pivoted to.
Renaud 2y ago
Tesla car’s don’t have a great reputation for quality or service. They were among the first and the cars were good enough to persuade people, but there are many alternatives now. People are less likely to pay a premium for Tesla. And the brand is irremediably damaged by Elon’s polarising politics. Being off-putting to a large part of your market is bound to have negative effects on your sales.
stephc_int13 2y ago
Tesla is in a very peculiar position as an automaker, P/E ratio (price of the stock compared to earnings) is extremely optimist regarding the potential, with self-driving, robots and overall market dominance. But all of that is not real, it is, at best speculative, and the cars themselves are not great, especially when compared to other EVs. The huge valuation of Tesla will crumble dramatically as soon as investors stop believing the promises. And having poor/declining or even stagnating sales is very likely to trigger some close scrutiny and doubts.

adamgamble 2y ago

I own a cybertruck and completely love it. It’s wacky and fun and it gives me all the tech I wanted, plus I can use it like a truck when needed. I actually think it’s opposite, once people drive it they realize it’s really compelling. It does have some minor build issues that are fixed for free under warranty. Then again so does my gmc.

bluedevil2k 2y ago
Minor build issues? They had a total recall. Fixed for free? Yes, if you can wait weeks for the fix. https://www.fastcompany.com/91109879/a-timeline-of-tesla-cybertruck-problems-from-rust-to-hail-damage-to-pedal-recalls https://www.fastcompany.com/91109879/a-timeline-of-tesla-cyb... https://www.cybertruckownersclub.com/forum/threads/waiting-on-cybertruck-repair-since-02-24-24-fixed-07-23-24.16618/ https://www.cybertruckownersclub.com/forum/threads/waiting-o...
- mavhc 2y ago
  https://www.cars.com/research/ford-f_150/recalls/ https://www.cars.com/research/ford-f_150/recalls/ 109 recalls
  - FollowingTheDao 2y ago
    That is so misleading. Those F-150 recalls go back to 2003. The Cyberstuck has only been out a year.
  - chneu 2y ago
    lol not even close to an accurate comparison. The F-series has 20+ years on the CT. Also, quite a few of those F-series recalls are for very specific engine configurations. Many of those recalls are also for relatively minor things. Some of those recalls are for labels not being in the right location.
    - mavhc 2y ago
      Same with Cybertruck, Font size is wrong, tpms light doesn't stay on if you power cycle the truck, a mirror camera opens slowly all minor software fixes, which leaves "used the wrong glue" twice, inverter problem, and windscreen motor overheating. Point is ever car has loads of recalls, some don't get clicks so aren't reported much

LinuxBender 2y ago

No need for brain programming. Some of them will have seen Cody Detwiler WhistlinDiesel test the CT. [1][2] He's of course overly dramatic and meant to be entertainment but I personally wish he would test every vehicle and should be the standard for durability testing. There are plenty of other Youtubers running into problems with the Cyber..... falling apart when doing things I did with my 80's Chevy without issue. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_scBKKHi7WQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_scBKKHi7WQ [video][10 mins] [2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK_EJ3DyiiA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK_EJ3DyiiA [video][21 mins]

tim333 2y ago
There was a follow up to see how much down force on the tow hook was needed to break the frame https://youtu.be/ubUXNSWGth0?t=419 https://youtu.be/ubUXNSWGth0?t=419 was 10,500 lbs, done by JerryRigEverything
- LinuxBender 2y ago
  I enjoy his channel. He talks in one of his videos about the regret of getting a Cybertruck and putting his company logo on it now that it's so political. I assume others are probably having similar regrets. In reference to the frame I can not even imagine breaking a frame. All my offroad and utility vehicles have had a steel frames that at worst might bend if I go all whistlindiesel on it. A big enough pothole can put a lot of stress on a frame. To me personally it feels like there is some similarity between the Tesla design philosophies and the OceanGate Titan submersible both of which needed significantly more stress testing.
chneu 2y ago
whistlindiesel is one of the most annoying car-centered youtube creators. Dude constantly baits people into saying stuff and then he claims to be a victim to drum up support from his conservative followers. His script is so tired and predictable at this point. i'm not saying dont post his links or anything, just giving some perspective for HN folks who might not be familiar with his shtick.

lfsh 2y ago

I think the main reason Tesla became popular is range. The build qality has never been as good as other brands.

Yeul 2y ago
Tesla was the only EV that was somewhat affordable and the supercharger network was really good. In 2025 in my own country the Netherlands several Chinese companies have entered the market and there are non Tesla supercharger stations. We are now in the "tough competition" stage.
- lfsh 2y ago
  "Tesla was the only EV that was somewhat affordable" I don't think this is true. For example the Nissan Leaf has always been more affordable. But the range of the first Leaf models was very low. Tesla was the first EV company that offered a range comparible to ICE cars.
  - ben_w 2y ago
    Hard to tease the two apart. When Tesla was new, EV range was inherently expensive, the original Leaf was only able to be affordable because the battery was small. Now, batteries are so cheap this is no longer a trade-off; also why new Leaf models are longer range.
- zfg 2y ago
  All brands have been able to use Tesla chargers in Europe for years now. Tesla is just one charging network operator out of many.

Yeul 2y ago

Maybe Musk can convince Congress to put subsidies on Tesla. Making it the American Trabant.

nodoll 2y ago

>MAGA I haven't seen anything that would tell me that these are very smart people. But what it tells me is that they are just NOT very very dumb.

t0bia_s 2y ago

I can spot Tesla cars almost daily in big European cities. I never saw Cybertruck and I'm glad for that, because this vehicle has tawdry design.

davidguetta 2y ago
Its primarily the size which is a problem. Cybertruck fits only European highway basically
shagie 2y ago
It's banned in some places for vehicle safety issues. https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterlyon/2025/02/20/tesla-cybertruck-banned-in-the-uk-due-to-safety-issues/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterlyon/2025/02/20/tesla-cybe... There's size and weight. Rounded edges for any protruding parts. Crumple zones. Light bar has visibility and illumination issues. The 0-60 mph speed of 2.6 seconds combined with a weight of 6000 lbs puts its torque in super car territory. --- I doubt you'll see one outside people playing with the rules at the edge of legality. https://www.jalopnik.com/a-barely-modified-tesla-cybertruck-has-made-it-to-europ-1851673961/ https://www.jalopnik.com/a-barely-modified-tesla-cybertruck-...

VaderLied 2y ago

[flagged]

DamnInteresting 2y ago

> I think that Cybertrucks could be the nail in the coffin for even the most MAGA brainwashed Elon fan, once they drive it I have a friend who owns a Cybertruck, and he let me give it a try. There are many, many, many legitimate and damning criticisms of Cybertruck, Tesla, and Musk, but the Cybertruck driving experience (on pavement) is not one of them. It is crazy fast, and surprisingly nimble with its 4-wheel drive-by-wire steering. It is dangerous and stupid, but it isn't boring. Speaking as a lifelong driving enthusiast, I would never buy one, but I'm glad I got to try one.

belter 2y ago
> It is dangerous and stupid/ Deadly for pedestrians, cyclists and other small cars on the road. The perfect creation out of the wet dream of a self-absorbed billionaire.

rasz 2y ago

>once they drive it… No, and saying that makes me think you never tried. Its a fun rocketship. External size, being shaped specifically to kill pedestrians, cracking plastic fantastic components, weight related accelerated wear, falling off panels and finally nazi association are its main problems.

belter 2y ago

"Multiple Teslas Set On Fire in Germany" - https://www.newsweek.com/tesla-vehicles-set-fire-berlin-germany-elon-musk-2044692 https://www.newsweek.com/tesla-vehicles-set-fire-berlin-germ...

archagon 2y ago

Let’s not forget that Europe has its own populist far right movements coming into power: Reform UK, National Rally, AfD, etc. etc. etc. If the equivalent of MAGA takes over the EU, would owning a Tesla become a virtue signal for the ~30% of people that support these politics?

_DeadFred_ 2y ago

94% of Germans won't buy a Tesla. https://electrek.co/2025/03/14/tesla-is-done-in-germany-94-say-they-wont-buy-a-tesla-car/ https://electrek.co/2025/03/14/tesla-is-done-in-germany-94-s... But on the plus side Ted Cruz is putting in work to bring their cool factor up https://x.com/tedcruz/status/1900588329609163164 https://x.com/tedcruz/status/1900588329609163164

amriksohata 2y ago

Not really, share price is just stabilising back to November levels pre-election. The trucks were never their staple income, and there is a new Juniper model coming out which has dropped their prices plus competition from chinese brands. If you look at overall global sales, they slowed in 2024 too.