4 ms·

I've never quite understood this sort of anti-scammer content and what its appeal is to readers. There are a million YouTube videos and other articles out there

by _tk_ 2y ago

I've never quite understood this sort of anti-scammer content and what its appeal is to readers. There are a million YouTube videos and other articles out there that explain, analyze, as well as mock[1] and denigrate scammers - who are essentially modern day slaves [2]. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWzz3NeDz3E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWzz3NeDz3E [2]: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-03-02/human-trafficking-vietnam-fuelling-cyber-slave-romance-scams/104542548 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-03-02/human-trafficking-vie...

jdiez17 2y ago
It’s a form of “justice porn”. You’re right that these scammers are victims themselves. But seeing how they treat vulnerable groups (particularly less tech savvy, trusting, older people - which may well be your mom one day) is absolutely fucking vile. Also, some anti-scammer YouTubers are legitimately very skilled and entertaining to watch. Kitboga is the first that comes to mind. He has all these voices, characters, sound effects - and takes scammers on quite some adventures. Pretty funny.
- know-how 2y ago
  [dead]
VPenkov 2y ago
I can think of three things: serving as a guide, serving to raise awareness, and entertainment. On the "serving as a guide" part, some people are activists and subscribe to the idea that if they are wasting a scammer's time, this means the scammer has one victim fewer. On the raising awareness side, there are absolutely plenty of YouTube videos, but it's always good to educate people before they become targets. The psychological and financial impact of getting scammed can be devastating. Raised awareness could also prompt the authorities to crack down on scam centers. On the entertainment side - some people just get a kick out of it. Additionally, this particular article breaks down the various tactics used and teaches the reader to identify them.
jjani 2y ago
This deserves some nuance. Much of the scam-baiting content - in fact, all of the ones I'd seen until this post - revolves around tech support scams, advance fee scams and the likes, which unlike these romance scams are generally not done by slaves.
- whoisstan 2y ago
  How do you know they are not done by slaves?
  - mschuster91 2y ago
    Scammer Payback's videos always include footage from the surveillance cameras. At least the scammers he and his crew target don't use slavery - that's more of a problem in Burma/Myanmar, not in India where many tech scammers are.
    - whoisstan 2y ago
      Didn't know, are they individuals working independently with some 'services' to provide targets/money laundering or are they part of organized crime or payroll? I am curious in the support structures they are embedded in.
      - mschuster91 2y ago
        SP gives tales on that in pretty much every video. It's usually messenger apps where the coordination happens - scammers share and sell lists of leads, marks and mules, with different prices for "verified susceptible" targets, there's regional groups (even on Facebook lol) where scam ringleaders and potential agents meet, and yes there's payroll and even legit shift work. In the worst cases, legitimate companies sublet their office space to scammers - the day shift are regular callcenter employees that do fully legitimate consulting/support/outsourcing stuff, and in the night the scammer crews roll in. Utterly absurd to watch, and police usually doesn't do shit because they're paid off.
  - jjani 2y ago
belorn 2y ago
Based on crime research, it seems that most organized crime is composed of modern day slaves, with varied degree of slavery. The most extreme are those that involve trafficking. It is a key distinction of the lowest level of their hierarchy, including the aspect that the lowest levels do most of the hands on work and most/all of the interaction with victims. I view articles like this to be similar to those that explain and analyze the behavior of foot solders in street gangs. Who do they approach, how, what strategy do they employ to build trust, and how do they avoid detection.
- codedokode 2y ago
  In this case, if the scammer is from Russia there is likely no trafficking involved (except maybe for the woman who called on the phone because she did not sound Russian to me).
whoisstan 2y ago
Same, better to think about ways to actually help them than mock them.
gus_massa 2y ago
Hi from Argentina! Yesterday someone tried to hack my WhatsApp. He call me and said something like: > Hello! I'm from phone company $Name. Someone tried to register your WhatsApp number form $Another_city. We are calling to confirm because otherwise we will have to block your phone line with $Name. The first problem was that $Name was not my phone company. I though it was a "change company" call that is worse than a scam because it's real and is done by the phone companies. They even let children accept the company change. So I said that I didn't authorize any change to anything. He replied that: > You are in WhatsApp group $Something and if you don't confirm we will have to block your phone line with $Name. Weird pause because I was in group $Something! And he continued: > We will send you now an SMS with a code to confirm your identity, because if we don't get the confirmation we will have to block your phone line with $Name. I hang up. I got a SMS from WhatsApp with a secret number to install WhatsApp in a new device, that explicitly says that I should not share the number with anyone. They probably hacked the account of other member of group $Something. The main plan is to send money request to other persons in the group. Our bank system is quite modern and everyone has in their phone an app from the bank to transfer money instantly for free. (I have not seen a dead-tree check in decades.) So today I have zero sympathy for scammers. Moreover, I think the employees of the call centers of the real companies here have worse working conditions than the scammer here. And neither of them are in almost slavery conditions. (From time to time we have police investigations of slavery conditions but mostly for forced prostitution and ilegal cloth factories. It's a real problem but not in the scammer area.)
- willvarfar 2y ago
  (Last month there was a crackdown that freed over 7000 call centre slaves in Myanmar. In that operation those freed actually ended up in a kind of captive holding situation https://www.independent.co.uk/asia/southeast-asia/myanmar-scam-centres-detention-forced-labour-b2711716.html https://www.independent.co.uk/asia/southeast-asia/myanmar-sc... The article mentions that the call centres in Myanmar were targeting Chinese and Americans, so although the call centers are very far away the people they are scamming might be a lot closer. Its a very international problem.)
- chatmasta 2y ago
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
znpy 2y ago
> who are essentially modern day slaves scams are not acceptable, no matter who's performing it > I've never quite understood this sort of anti-scammer content and what its appeal is to readers. mocking is a very effective way to raise awareness of the issue, it delivers information on how scammers act and how to understand you're being scammed, and make that information stick. making that kind of scam inefficient is a very good way (entertaining, non-violent, essentially harmless to scammer) to make the phenomenon disappear.
iainmerrick 2y ago
Are you maybe falling into the trap of being surprised at other people not yet knowing what you know? "Today's ten thousand" as it's called in xkcd: https://xkcd.com/1053/ https://xkcd.com/1053/ If you're not already jaded with the topic, it's really interesting! There's a lot of detail and nuance to it, and yeah, there's some satisfaction in seeing the bad guys get foiled for once. This particular investigation doesn't actually mock or denigrate the scammers. The author sets a strict rule at the very start: Techniques not people: the aim of this is not to identify the individuals behind the scams, it's to see how they work. That doesn't actually rule out mockery, but they don't engage in it anyway (beyond a "cheeky bastards" aside, which in any case is more about acknowledging their chutzpah).
acdha 2y ago
I posted it because I find awareness of these scams is useful. If you have older relatives or friends you might want to be ready if they report a new online relationship. I also don’t spend much time on YouTube so a blog post is good for people who don’t want to take the time warning a video.
kibwen 2y ago
Unrestrained empathy is self-destruction. Being a victim is not a blanket excuse for the act of victimizing others. There is no easy, feel-good solution to this problem.
gosub100 2y ago
Then the telecom industry is responsible for blocking it, or perhaps is liable for damages caused by the slavery.

by _tk_ 2y ago

jdiez17 2y ago

It’s a form of “justice porn”. You’re right that these scammers are victims themselves. But seeing how they treat vulnerable groups (particularly less tech savvy, trusting, older people - which may well be your mom one day) is absolutely fucking vile. Also, some anti-scammer YouTubers are legitimately very skilled and entertaining to watch. Kitboga is the first that comes to mind. He has all these voices, characters, sound effects - and takes scammers on quite some adventures. Pretty funny.

know-how 2y ago
[dead]

VPenkov 2y ago

I can think of three things: serving as a guide, serving to raise awareness, and entertainment. On the "serving as a guide" part, some people are activists and subscribe to the idea that if they are wasting a scammer's time, this means the scammer has one victim fewer. On the raising awareness side, there are absolutely plenty of YouTube videos, but it's always good to educate people before they become targets. The psychological and financial impact of getting scammed can be devastating. Raised awareness could also prompt the authorities to crack down on scam centers. On the entertainment side - some people just get a kick out of it. Additionally, this particular article breaks down the various tactics used and teaches the reader to identify them.

jjani 2y ago

This deserves some nuance. Much of the scam-baiting content - in fact, all of the ones I'd seen until this post - revolves around tech support scams, advance fee scams and the likes, which unlike these romance scams are generally not done by slaves.

whoisstan 2y ago
How do you know they are not done by slaves?
- mschuster91 2y ago
  Scammer Payback's videos always include footage from the surveillance cameras. At least the scammers he and his crew target don't use slavery - that's more of a problem in Burma/Myanmar, not in India where many tech scammers are.
  - whoisstan 2y ago
    Didn't know, are they individuals working independently with some 'services' to provide targets/money laundering or are they part of organized crime or payroll? I am curious in the support structures they are embedded in.
    - mschuster91 2y ago
      SP gives tales on that in pretty much every video. It's usually messenger apps where the coordination happens - scammers share and sell lists of leads, marks and mules, with different prices for "verified susceptible" targets, there's regional groups (even on Facebook lol) where scam ringleaders and potential agents meet, and yes there's payroll and even legit shift work. In the worst cases, legitimate companies sublet their office space to scammers - the day shift are regular callcenter employees that do fully legitimate consulting/support/outsourcing stuff, and in the night the scammer crews roll in. Utterly absurd to watch, and police usually doesn't do shit because they're paid off.
- jjani 2y ago

belorn 2y ago

Based on crime research, it seems that most organized crime is composed of modern day slaves, with varied degree of slavery. The most extreme are those that involve trafficking. It is a key distinction of the lowest level of their hierarchy, including the aspect that the lowest levels do most of the hands on work and most/all of the interaction with victims. I view articles like this to be similar to those that explain and analyze the behavior of foot solders in street gangs. Who do they approach, how, what strategy do they employ to build trust, and how do they avoid detection.

codedokode 2y ago
In this case, if the scammer is from Russia there is likely no trafficking involved (except maybe for the woman who called on the phone because she did not sound Russian to me).

whoisstan 2y ago

Same, better to think about ways to actually help them than mock them.

gus_massa 2y ago

Hi from Argentina! Yesterday someone tried to hack my WhatsApp. He call me and said something like: > Hello! I'm from phone company $Name. Someone tried to register your WhatsApp number form $Another_city. We are calling to confirm because otherwise we will have to block your phone line with $Name. The first problem was that $Name was not my phone company. I though it was a "change company" call that is worse than a scam because it's real and is done by the phone companies. They even let children accept the company change. So I said that I didn't authorize any change to anything. He replied that: > You are in WhatsApp group $Something and if you don't confirm we will have to block your phone line with $Name. Weird pause because I was in group $Something! And he continued: > We will send you now an SMS with a code to confirm your identity, because if we don't get the confirmation we will have to block your phone line with $Name. I hang up. I got a SMS from WhatsApp with a secret number to install WhatsApp in a new device, that explicitly says that I should not share the number with anyone. They probably hacked the account of other member of group $Something. The main plan is to send money request to other persons in the group. Our bank system is quite modern and everyone has in their phone an app from the bank to transfer money instantly for free. (I have not seen a dead-tree check in decades.) So today I have zero sympathy for scammers. Moreover, I think the employees of the call centers of the real companies here have worse working conditions than the scammer here. And neither of them are in almost slavery conditions. (From time to time we have police investigations of slavery conditions but mostly for forced prostitution and ilegal cloth factories. It's a real problem but not in the scammer area.)

willvarfar 2y ago
(Last month there was a crackdown that freed over 7000 call centre slaves in Myanmar. In that operation those freed actually ended up in a kind of captive holding situation https://www.independent.co.uk/asia/southeast-asia/myanmar-scam-centres-detention-forced-labour-b2711716.html https://www.independent.co.uk/asia/southeast-asia/myanmar-sc... The article mentions that the call centres in Myanmar were targeting Chinese and Americans, so although the call centers are very far away the people they are scamming might be a lot closer. Its a very international problem.)
chatmasta 2y ago

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

znpy 2y ago

> who are essentially modern day slaves scams are not acceptable, no matter who's performing it > I've never quite understood this sort of anti-scammer content and what its appeal is to readers. mocking is a very effective way to raise awareness of the issue, it delivers information on how scammers act and how to understand you're being scammed, and make that information stick. making that kind of scam inefficient is a very good way (entertaining, non-violent, essentially harmless to scammer) to make the phenomenon disappear.

iainmerrick 2y ago

Are you maybe falling into the trap of being surprised at other people not yet knowing what you know? "Today's ten thousand" as it's called in xkcd: https://xkcd.com/1053/ https://xkcd.com/1053/ If you're not already jaded with the topic, it's really interesting! There's a lot of detail and nuance to it, and yeah, there's some satisfaction in seeing the bad guys get foiled for once. This particular investigation doesn't actually mock or denigrate the scammers. The author sets a strict rule at the very start: Techniques not people: the aim of this is not to identify the individuals behind the scams, it's to see how they work. That doesn't actually rule out mockery, but they don't engage in it anyway (beyond a "cheeky bastards" aside, which in any case is more about acknowledging their chutzpah).

acdha 2y ago

I posted it because I find awareness of these scams is useful. If you have older relatives or friends you might want to be ready if they report a new online relationship. I also don’t spend much time on YouTube so a blog post is good for people who don’t want to take the time warning a video.

kibwen 2y ago

Unrestrained empathy is self-destruction. Being a victim is not a blanket excuse for the act of victimizing others. There is no easy, feel-good solution to this problem.

gosub100 2y ago

Then the telecom industry is responsible for blocking it, or perhaps is liable for damages caused by the slavery.