4 ms·

There's no concept of "sick days" here in Germany like there is back in the US. You're either sick or you're not. If you're sick you don't go to work. If you're

by junon 2y ago

There's no concept of "sick days" here in Germany like there is back in the US. You're either sick or you're not. If you're sick you don't go to work. If you're sick more than 3 days, you get a doctor's note. If you're stick more than a month or something (I forget the exact amount of time) then insurance takes over to help pay your wage so your employer isn't completely hosed. Ultimately, you're not penalized for being sick. But your employer can still check that you're actually sick, just to be sure. I'm sure many people are taking time off of Tesla work due to stress, which is a valid reason to get a doctor's note here.

mschild 2y ago
> more than a month or something 6 weeks. > But your employer can still check that you're actually sick. Within limits, yes. Tesla in Germany went way beyond that though. Private detectives and managers showing up at employees houses to check they're actually sick. They're also holding back the salaries of sick employees and are pressuring sick employees to give up their medical privilege and share personal health information with them. Highly unethical and very likely illegal in some instances.
- iszomer 2y ago
  I imagine Tesla has to follow the rules and regulations in accordance with German law, the same as Tesla's division in China.
  - guappa 2y ago
    Yes companies never violate any laws…
  - netsharc 2y ago
    > I imagine Tesla has to follow the rules and regulations Is that a new verse of John Lennon's song?
  - junon 2y ago
    They probably didn't. Hiring a private investigator to look into your employees' health breaks several laws.
FirmwareBurner 2y ago
>If you're stick more than a month or something (I forget the exact amount of time) then insurance takes over to help pay your wage so your employer isn't completely hosed Doesn't employers being forced to paying wages to sick employees for 6 weeks take a toll on small businesses with little cashflow? >There's no concept of "sick days" here in Germany like there is back in the US. No, but sick days are still not working days. You still have to report "Krankenstand" to your employer. It's not like whether you work or not because you're sick it's the same thing to your employer and to the law. Sick days are a thing, just not like in the US, but they're still sick days, and not working days. >I'm sure many people are taking time off of Tesla work due to stress, which is a valid reason to get a doctor's note here. I'm always curious about this. How often can you get day off for stress? How do employers or health insurers differentiate between stress as a health condition and being lazy and not wanting to work? Because I remember one time, our offshore team in Germany seemed to all be always mysteriously "getting sick" right before we had a SW release scheduled, leaving us holding the bags. Huh, what a weird coincidence. /s If you look at recent statistics, German workers are at the top of sick days used, twice as much sick days than the EU average, which is an insane difference. So what's going on? Is there a health crisis in Germany causing Germans to be twice as sick as their neighbors? Or are they twice as likely to cheat the system? Or a bit of both?
- rob74 2y ago
  > I'm always curious about this. How often can you get day off for stress? As often as your doctor will allow/approve it?
  - FirmwareBurner 2y ago
    Of course, but what doctors can and can't do is restricted by the regulations of the national health insurance/organization. For example in Austria a doctor can't easily write you sick for stress over and over without getting in hot water with the national health insurance board. After too many sick days, you get summoned for "an audit" to the national insurance doctor for an examination to check why are you sick so often, and unless you show some test results that can prove that you can't work, then that doctor will declare you fit for work and then you are forced to return to work. There was a case in the news where one worker had to sue the national health insource to be classified as permanently unfit for work(disability) due to long covid since the national insure was not accepting/recognizing her long covid and calling her fit for work. It's pretty brutal sometimes, the system has grifters on both sides leading to misery.
hereme888 2y ago
Every low or high-paying job I've had in the US is the same. I can just call in sick for a few days. Eventually they would want a doctor's note just to be sure.
- junon 2y ago
  What I described is the law here. In the states, it's not (I'm from there, I know this all too well).

by junon 2y ago

mschild 2y ago

> more than a month or something 6 weeks. > But your employer can still check that you're actually sick. Within limits, yes. Tesla in Germany went way beyond that though. Private detectives and managers showing up at employees houses to check they're actually sick. They're also holding back the salaries of sick employees and are pressuring sick employees to give up their medical privilege and share personal health information with them. Highly unethical and very likely illegal in some instances.

iszomer 2y ago
I imagine Tesla has to follow the rules and regulations in accordance with German law, the same as Tesla's division in China.
- guappa 2y ago
  Yes companies never violate any laws…
- netsharc 2y ago
  > I imagine Tesla has to follow the rules and regulations Is that a new verse of John Lennon's song?
- junon 2y ago
  They probably didn't. Hiring a private investigator to look into your employees' health breaks several laws.

FirmwareBurner 2y ago

>If you're stick more than a month or something (I forget the exact amount of time) then insurance takes over to help pay your wage so your employer isn't completely hosed Doesn't employers being forced to paying wages to sick employees for 6 weeks take a toll on small businesses with little cashflow? >There's no concept of "sick days" here in Germany like there is back in the US. No, but sick days are still not working days. You still have to report "Krankenstand" to your employer. It's not like whether you work or not because you're sick it's the same thing to your employer and to the law. Sick days are a thing, just not like in the US, but they're still sick days, and not working days. >I'm sure many people are taking time off of Tesla work due to stress, which is a valid reason to get a doctor's note here. I'm always curious about this. How often can you get day off for stress? How do employers or health insurers differentiate between stress as a health condition and being lazy and not wanting to work? Because I remember one time, our offshore team in Germany seemed to all be always mysteriously "getting sick" right before we had a SW release scheduled, leaving us holding the bags. Huh, what a weird coincidence. /s If you look at recent statistics, German workers are at the top of sick days used, twice as much sick days than the EU average, which is an insane difference. So what's going on? Is there a health crisis in Germany causing Germans to be twice as sick as their neighbors? Or are they twice as likely to cheat the system? Or a bit of both?

rob74 2y ago
> I'm always curious about this. How often can you get day off for stress? As often as your doctor will allow/approve it?
- FirmwareBurner 2y ago
  Of course, but what doctors can and can't do is restricted by the regulations of the national health insurance/organization. For example in Austria a doctor can't easily write you sick for stress over and over without getting in hot water with the national health insurance board. After too many sick days, you get summoned for "an audit" to the national insurance doctor for an examination to check why are you sick so often, and unless you show some test results that can prove that you can't work, then that doctor will declare you fit for work and then you are forced to return to work. There was a case in the news where one worker had to sue the national health insource to be classified as permanently unfit for work(disability) due to long covid since the national insure was not accepting/recognizing her long covid and calling her fit for work. It's pretty brutal sometimes, the system has grifters on both sides leading to misery.

hereme888 2y ago

Every low or high-paying job I've had in the US is the same. I can just call in sick for a few days. Eventually they would want a doctor's note just to be sure.

junon 2y ago
What I described is the law here. In the states, it's not (I'm from there, I know this all too well).