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>>This is NOT democracy in action. That's just arguing over semantics, which just isn't helpful. US has one democratic action still in operation - voting for t

>>This is NOT democracy in action. That's just arguing over semantics, which just isn't helpful. US has one democratic action still in operation - voting for the president. And people voted for Trump having seen exactly what kind of administration he would lead - so this is what they get. So yes, this is democracy in action, even if other nations do it better.

Gud 2y ago
This is absolutely not arguing over semantics. There is a severe lack of democracy in the US and this is the root cause of the problem. Why does Donald Trump have this much power to begin with? It is only possible due to the United States of America’s flawed system of government. With this much centralised power, this will inevitably be the end result. You had two realistic choices for president in the previous election, one that hasn’t even been selected in any form of democratic process. They both spent billions of dollars to try to get elected.
- gambiting 2y ago
  >>Why does Donald Trump have this much power to begin with? Why is Donald Trump in power right now? Because of a public democratic vote. The core issue is that people voted for him specifically. >>It is only possible due to the United States of America’s flawed system of government. Agreed. Doesn't change the fact that if people didn't vote for Trump he wouldn't be in power. Again, democratic action. >>one that hasn’t even been selected in any form of democratic process. Does switzerland have a vote for who is going to be a candidate for president? Or does the public not actually get a vote given that "presidency is rotated between parties"?
  - Gud 2y ago
    Just because the USA has some voting going on, doesn’t mean it’s a functioning democracy. The people of the USA has very limited power, except for the well connected, so it can hardly be described as a democracy. In the US, only the rich are represented. The president of Switzerland is rotated between the largest political parties and is only president for one year. The president of Switzerland has extremely limited power due to the decentralised nature of their government. It is not a position comparable to any other country. In Switzerland it is not possible for one individual to wreak havoc like what is currently being done in the USA. https://www.admin.ch/gov/en/start/federal-presidency.html#:~:text=Presidential%20year%202025-,Karin%20Keller%2DSutter%20was%20elected%20President%20of%20the%20Swiss%20Confederation,her%20first%20term%20as%20president. https://www.admin.ch/gov/en/start/federal-presidency.html#:~...
    - gambiting 2y ago
      >>Just because the USA has some voting going on, doesn’t mean it’s a functioning democracy I don't disagree with you. But Trump specifically has been selected by the people through a democratic process, we don't disagree here, correct? My general point is - despite everything else going wrong at every other level of the government, American people, the common Joes of the land, had one very simple option - not voting for Trump. They had this power(arguably, very little in the grand scheme of things, but still) and they decided to use it to elect him and give full mandate to his administration. The rest of America is not a functional democracy like you said - but the fact that Trump is in charge is squarely in the hands of the American people.
      - Gud 2y ago
        Just because there is a process of voting, doesn’t make it a democracy, hence my claim that the US is only nominally democratic - democratic in name only. Because the option are so restricted, and the people’s influence of the politics, I do not consider the US democratic. Yes there was a vote, but it is not sufficient. The people don’t hold the power.
        gambiting 2y ago
        >>The people don’t hold the power. The people hold the power to elect or not elect Trump though! I cannot possibly be any clearer about this, and I really hope you don't disagree with this! It would be democratic in name only if it was like Russia - where you still have elections but somehow the leading candidate wins with 99% of the vote(sometimes even above 100%!). So you have the disguise of a democratic process but the underlying mechanisms don't function. I honestly don't even know what we're arguing about anymore. You said "this is NOT democracy in action". Trump being the president IS democracy, the US presidential elections are democratic even if the rest of the US isn't. The nature of US being or not being a democracy isn't what I took an issue with, because I do actually think we agree there.
        Gud 2y ago
- jfengel 2y ago
  Why does Donald Trump have this much power to begin with? Because regardless of the (numerous) faults of democracy in general, and American democracy in particular, 77 million people actively stood up and said "This is what I want". Tens of millions more knew perfectly well that this is what would happen, and chose not to intervene. I would say that this is the root cause of the problem. Maybe in a better system, those 77 million people wouldn't have been the dominant force. But it's clear that this is not just one person exploiting a loophole. He has the support of tens of millions of people. I'd also say that this is entirely about ending centralized power. The EPA only exists because the federal government compels it on everybody. This is ending federal involvement.

Gud 2y ago

This is absolutely not arguing over semantics. There is a severe lack of democracy in the US and this is the root cause of the problem. Why does Donald Trump have this much power to begin with? It is only possible due to the United States of America’s flawed system of government. With this much centralised power, this will inevitably be the end result. You had two realistic choices for president in the previous election, one that hasn’t even been selected in any form of democratic process. They both spent billions of dollars to try to get elected.

gambiting 2y ago
>>Why does Donald Trump have this much power to begin with? Why is Donald Trump in power right now? Because of a public democratic vote. The core issue is that people voted for him specifically. >>It is only possible due to the United States of America’s flawed system of government. Agreed. Doesn't change the fact that if people didn't vote for Trump he wouldn't be in power. Again, democratic action. >>one that hasn’t even been selected in any form of democratic process. Does switzerland have a vote for who is going to be a candidate for president? Or does the public not actually get a vote given that "presidency is rotated between parties"?
- Gud 2y ago
  Just because the USA has some voting going on, doesn’t mean it’s a functioning democracy. The people of the USA has very limited power, except for the well connected, so it can hardly be described as a democracy. In the US, only the rich are represented. The president of Switzerland is rotated between the largest political parties and is only president for one year. The president of Switzerland has extremely limited power due to the decentralised nature of their government. It is not a position comparable to any other country. In Switzerland it is not possible for one individual to wreak havoc like what is currently being done in the USA. https://www.admin.ch/gov/en/start/federal-presidency.html#:~:text=Presidential%20year%202025-,Karin%20Keller%2DSutter%20was%20elected%20President%20of%20the%20Swiss%20Confederation,her%20first%20term%20as%20president. https://www.admin.ch/gov/en/start/federal-presidency.html#:~...
  - gambiting 2y ago
    >>Just because the USA has some voting going on, doesn’t mean it’s a functioning democracy I don't disagree with you. But Trump specifically has been selected by the people through a democratic process, we don't disagree here, correct? My general point is - despite everything else going wrong at every other level of the government, American people, the common Joes of the land, had one very simple option - not voting for Trump. They had this power(arguably, very little in the grand scheme of things, but still) and they decided to use it to elect him and give full mandate to his administration. The rest of America is not a functional democracy like you said - but the fact that Trump is in charge is squarely in the hands of the American people.
    - Gud 2y ago
      Just because there is a process of voting, doesn’t make it a democracy, hence my claim that the US is only nominally democratic - democratic in name only. Because the option are so restricted, and the people’s influence of the politics, I do not consider the US democratic. Yes there was a vote, but it is not sufficient. The people don’t hold the power.
      - gambiting 2y ago
        >>The people don’t hold the power. The people hold the power to elect or not elect Trump though! I cannot possibly be any clearer about this, and I really hope you don't disagree with this! It would be democratic in name only if it was like Russia - where you still have elections but somehow the leading candidate wins with 99% of the vote(sometimes even above 100%!). So you have the disguise of a democratic process but the underlying mechanisms don't function. I honestly don't even know what we're arguing about anymore. You said "this is NOT democracy in action". Trump being the president IS democracy, the US presidential elections are democratic even if the rest of the US isn't. The nature of US being or not being a democracy isn't what I took an issue with, because I do actually think we agree there.
        Gud 2y ago
jfengel 2y ago
Why does Donald Trump have this much power to begin with? Because regardless of the (numerous) faults of democracy in general, and American democracy in particular, 77 million people actively stood up and said "This is what I want". Tens of millions more knew perfectly well that this is what would happen, and chose not to intervene. I would say that this is the root cause of the problem. Maybe in a better system, those 77 million people wouldn't have been the dominant force. But it's clear that this is not just one person exploiting a loophole. He has the support of tens of millions of people. I'd also say that this is entirely about ending centralized power. The EPA only exists because the federal government compels it on everybody. This is ending federal involvement.