5 ms·

This is probably true if you look at all big tech companies, but before Windows, MacOS, Oracle Databases or IBM computers did not have the responsibility of dea

by dep_b 2y ago

This is probably true if you look at all big tech companies, but before Windows, MacOS, Oracle Databases or IBM computers did not have the responsibility of dealing with the communication and shaping of world view of billions of people world wide. It's the same as owning a large share of news papers or TV channels. You own the public discourse. If Larry Ellison is a greedy immoral bastard I switch to MS SQL Server, or something open source. When Zuckerberg or Musk became greedy immoral bastards, they started to shape the information fed to the world. You can decide not to buy a Tesla, but you cannot escape the results of brainwashing of other people that vote. Bill Gates had serious trouble for including a free Internet Browser in his Operating System, because he was not able to influence the public discourse. The new internet mass communication companies do. Google never really got into much trouble while their monopoly was stronger.

alex1138 2y ago
I know your comment isn't about Elon specifically and I have my own reservations about some of what he does, but it's important to point out (and maybe this depends on what you call "misinformation", it shapes all future discussion) that Twitter absolutely was censoring for partisan reasons (before he bought it; I know some have complained Musk does indeed ban his critics) including silencing covid dissent, real doctors and researchers getting kicked off. Him acquiring it was absolutely necessary to break the deadlock Edit: We do not want our platforms to be owned by someone like Susan Wojcicki who inflated her own importance and who thought mass censorship is ok (Google has really abrogated their responsibility here)
- pastage 2y ago
  Everything is not partisan it might be political. The Republican vs. Democratic is hurting the US badly you can not continue to make everything ok just because you need the support from whatever extreme views is populist in your party. Most of the things a party does is not extreme but you guys are going insane over there.
- skyyler 2y ago
  The censorship hasn’t reduced under Elon, who it’s directed at has changed.
- Hikikomori 2y ago
  The twittefiles nothingburger?
  - wyclif 2y ago
    Sorry not sorry, but that was no "nothingburger." The fact of the matter was that Twitter under Jack Dorsey had become completely bloated and abusive. You had people working there whose only job was to do things like manipulate pixels in emojis and more seriously, they had created a vast and cancerous DEI bureaucracy.
    - Hikikomori 2y ago
      Guses the government is also that? You're choking on that coolaid.
      - wyclif 2y ago
        That the CISA works with the EIP isn't Kool-Aid, it's a fact, no matter how much it upsets the apple cart of established big media narratives. You know what else isn't "Kool-Aid"? The FBI was having monthly and even weekly meetings with Twitter executives to coordinate their efforts. Twitter under Dorsey did this in conjunction with the DHS, the DOJ, the office of the Director of National Intelligence, the CIA, and the NSA. In Twitter’s interactions with the FBI, former Head of Trust and Safety Yoel Roth considered the Bureau a proxy for the entire “intelligence community” as a whole; and that the FBI and Twitter have become closely enmeshed. If you don't think that's a problem for freedom of speech and privacy, perhaps you ought to read up on the topic.
        alex1138 2y ago
        Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe Dorsey was personally involved in any of this
        wyclif 2y ago
        I don't make any claims as to the level of his involvement, but the bad stuff happened both before and after his departure. Many of the moderation decisions discussed in the Twitter Files took place while he was still CEO.
- dep_b 2y ago
  I don't think Twitter was great before Elon either, but it's definitely worse than before. But I also don't see how Susan Wojcicki was abusing it's leverage like Musk does. But the US simply stopped fighting against tech monopolies at a given point. And started mocking the EU for doing what was common for the US until recently.
  - alex1138 2y ago
    Susan made a personal pledge to tackle "misinformation". Like these people https://rumble.com/vt62y6-covid-19-a-second-opinion.html https://rumble.com/vt62y6-covid-19-a-second-opinion.html (you actually can find the shortened version on Youtube, but all of those people with real credentials have had their videos pulled at one time or another) That's not her role. You should be policing the obvious stuff but not that, especially when none of it turns out to be misinformation. She absolutely abrogated her responsibility as CEO or even just being a decent person
    - dep_b 2y ago
      I was commenting about the general quality of the platform was already in decline. And the fact she didn’t seem to do anything with ulterior motive. Two separate things.
jpadkins 2y ago
> Bill Gates .. was not able to influence the public discourse. People forget that the MS in MSNBC stands for Microsoft. Bill Gates invested heavily in media and lobbying in the late 90s / early 00s.

by dep_b 2y ago

alex1138 2y ago

I know your comment isn't about Elon specifically and I have my own reservations about some of what he does, but it's important to point out (and maybe this depends on what you call "misinformation", it shapes all future discussion) that Twitter absolutely was censoring for partisan reasons (before he bought it; I know some have complained Musk does indeed ban his critics) including silencing covid dissent, real doctors and researchers getting kicked off. Him acquiring it was absolutely necessary to break the deadlock Edit: We do not want our platforms to be owned by someone like Susan Wojcicki who inflated her own importance and who thought mass censorship is ok (Google has really abrogated their responsibility here)

pastage 2y ago
Everything is not partisan it might be political. The Republican vs. Democratic is hurting the US badly you can not continue to make everything ok just because you need the support from whatever extreme views is populist in your party. Most of the things a party does is not extreme but you guys are going insane over there.
skyyler 2y ago
The censorship hasn’t reduced under Elon, who it’s directed at has changed.
Hikikomori 2y ago
The twittefiles nothingburger?
- wyclif 2y ago
  Sorry not sorry, but that was no "nothingburger." The fact of the matter was that Twitter under Jack Dorsey had become completely bloated and abusive. You had people working there whose only job was to do things like manipulate pixels in emojis and more seriously, they had created a vast and cancerous DEI bureaucracy.
  - Hikikomori 2y ago
    Guses the government is also that? You're choking on that coolaid.
    - wyclif 2y ago
      That the CISA works with the EIP isn't Kool-Aid, it's a fact, no matter how much it upsets the apple cart of established big media narratives. You know what else isn't "Kool-Aid"? The FBI was having monthly and even weekly meetings with Twitter executives to coordinate their efforts. Twitter under Dorsey did this in conjunction with the DHS, the DOJ, the office of the Director of National Intelligence, the CIA, and the NSA. In Twitter’s interactions with the FBI, former Head of Trust and Safety Yoel Roth considered the Bureau a proxy for the entire “intelligence community” as a whole; and that the FBI and Twitter have become closely enmeshed. If you don't think that's a problem for freedom of speech and privacy, perhaps you ought to read up on the topic.
      - alex1138 2y ago
        Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe Dorsey was personally involved in any of this
        wyclif 2y ago
        I don't make any claims as to the level of his involvement, but the bad stuff happened both before and after his departure. Many of the moderation decisions discussed in the Twitter Files took place while he was still CEO.
dep_b 2y ago
I don't think Twitter was great before Elon either, but it's definitely worse than before. But I also don't see how Susan Wojcicki was abusing it's leverage like Musk does. But the US simply stopped fighting against tech monopolies at a given point. And started mocking the EU for doing what was common for the US until recently.
- alex1138 2y ago
  Susan made a personal pledge to tackle "misinformation". Like these people https://rumble.com/vt62y6-covid-19-a-second-opinion.html https://rumble.com/vt62y6-covid-19-a-second-opinion.html (you actually can find the shortened version on Youtube, but all of those people with real credentials have had their videos pulled at one time or another) That's not her role. You should be policing the obvious stuff but not that, especially when none of it turns out to be misinformation. She absolutely abrogated her responsibility as CEO or even just being a decent person
  - dep_b 2y ago
    I was commenting about the general quality of the platform was already in decline. And the fact she didn’t seem to do anything with ulterior motive. Two separate things.

jpadkins 2y ago

> Bill Gates .. was not able to influence the public discourse. People forget that the MS in MSNBC stands for Microsoft. Bill Gates invested heavily in media and lobbying in the late 90s / early 00s.