5 ms·

I believe, you have got the multipliers switched. Most 1x engineers/developers care deeply about users and the end product, and also likes to keep the code wel

by n_ary 2y ago

I believe, you have got the multipliers switched. Most 1x engineers/developers care deeply about users and the end product, and also likes to keep the code well maintained and performant, so they can do their peaceful work and go home, while not making the life of the user any more miserable. Most 10x engineers are too brilliant and remain busy rocking the boat and doing so many mind blowing things at any given time that the destruction trail is only materialising slowly once their presence has faded for a while and the remnants are being pieced together. I think, we equate the frenzy with 10x(productivity & excellence) while the less creative and cautious ones tend to be the most valuable over long term with most boring stuff. Of course to each their own, but the too many destructions of the 10x stars had made me very weary these days.

gmm1990 2y ago
Are there any open source repositories where this is an example? I keep hearing the 10x people ruin everything but I wouldn’t call that person 10x. I don’t understand how it’s objectionable that some people are more productive than others.
- alfalfasprout 2y ago
  The question is in how they're productive. If they're productive because they're effectively cutting corners and leaving a wake of tech debt others have to clean up then they are productive while slowing down their team (or worse, the company) as a whole.
  - whstl 2y ago
    Anyone that has been doing this job knows that the majority of average developers in any workplace will also cut corners every once in a while and leave a lot of tech debt to others, with very few exceptions. This myth that more productive developers are somehow worse and will ruin projects is just rationalization without any ground in reality.
    - alfalfasprout 2y ago
      Except it’s not a myth. Many of us have encountered the perceived more productive developers that ship barely passable garbage.
      - whstl 2y ago
        The myth I’m criticizing is that sloppiness has a stronger correlation with being productive. It doesn’t. Plenty of slow developers who suck. This is just rationalization.
- pests 2y ago
  I have a buddy that helped me out with some DIY/construction projects. He thinks he is a 10x as well since he gets so much done so quickly. He will finish up and sit down saying its done. I go look and every tool is literally everywhere, garbage and debris thrown about, and half the stuff is incorrectly installed as he didn't think he needed to read the instructions and missed key details.
  - from-nibly 2y ago
    That's someone who thinks they are 10x not someone who is.
    - pests 2y ago
      I think that would apply to many of those 10x'ers were talking about here tho.
      - from-nibly 2y ago
        But they aren't 10x'ers. You could say they are wannabe 10x'ers or 10x mess makers, or "10x'ers". But can we stop saying people who are good at there job are actually bad at their job and being mediocre actually means you are great? Like I know I'm being pedantic but this kind of culture is toxic to everyone. Edit: sorry for ranting under your comment. I'm sure you are a normal person just trying to get through your day. I just had to scream somewhere
        pests 2y ago
        You're fine no worries. I think you are making my point. People who claim they are 10x'ers are often not. They are mess makers or wannabes. They appear 10x to those who do not take messes or tech debt into account. You screaming (to use your lingo) that my buddy above is not a 10x is what the rest of us have been screaming about our co-workers! I'm not claiming people can't be 10x'ers. Nor am I saying being good is actually bad.
- Chyzwar 2y ago
  Katt from trpc, mantine lead developer, Tanner from tanstack, Anders from typescript, Jose from elixir, antires from redis. There plenty of 10x dev examples. In any creative industry Price's is well known phenomen. 50% of work is done by square root of people. But in reality there large number of problems that cannot be solved by average developer. That why people that build tooling, compilers, important libraries and frameworks make often 100 times more impact. They increase productivity of everyone
YetAnotherNick 2y ago
Hard disagree. If they don't consistently write maintainable and reliable code, they are not 10x engineer no matter how smart they are. e.g. Linus is a classic 10x or 100x engineer and his code(Linux, Git etc) has been maintained by a completely uncoordinated team for decades.
whstl 2y ago
Wait... "Most" 1x engineers? "Most" in any profession will be average. Which is completely normal and fine. This kind of reply is just flipping the stereotype and going in another insane extreme without any evidence at all, just conflating productivity with recklessness...
- Izkata 2y ago
  Their very next line also used "Most 10x engineers". Neither of those are talking about "most" in the profession, it's "most" in the subgroup. Average in the profession will be somewhere in between.
  - whstl 2y ago
    Are you really sure? If 1x is the absolute rock-bottom lowest possible productivity, are them really the precious angels who care deeply about the user while making amazing code? This is even more absurd.
    - Izkata 2y ago
      > If 1x is the absolute rock-bottom lowest possible productivity You understand the original meaning of the term. This is not how most people use it nowadays.
      - whstl 2y ago
        No, I don’t. You’re reading too much into my post. I haven’t made any judgement of whether 1x means average or rock bottom, because it doesn’t matter. The assertion made by GP is absurd regardless of the definition, period.
CrimsonRain 2y ago
Most "1x" engineers are a drag on the business. Complacent. Don't care about business goals. And the 10x you mentioned are not 10x. They are 1x with frenzy. If one is not multiplying the team output, they are simply 1x or lower (maybe a few exceptions)
Nevermark 2y ago
Someone imagining they are brilliant doesn’t make them brilliant. More so if in the light of day their work sucks. Discussions about 10x engineers are not about “wannabe 10x engineers”. — I have yet to come across an intellectual area where there isn’t a long tail of higher talent. As the “x” goes up they just get more rare in reality, and even rarer to see. Because they are not always being optimally challenged. Most problems are mundane. And optimally challenging workers isn’t really a business plan for anything. I think there is such thing as a 10x problem, which you have to find before your 10x engineer really shines. Identifying hard but exceptionally valuable problems to solve takes 10x vision. And time and luck.
- steveBK123 2y ago
  You really can over-hire and I've seen it happen in many shops If a "10x engineer" is not given 10x problems, they will.. create some.
  - rockemsockem 2y ago
    No, they'll leave. You're talking about the wannabes.
    - steveBK123 2y ago
      There’s easily 10x as many 10x wannabes though
  - TZubiri 2y ago
    Yes but it will never reach production. A 10x engineer that pushes a problem to prod is not a 10x. You get to 10x by not making mistakes, any issue you create sets you back ten squares.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - lowbloodsugar 2y ago

by n_ary 2y ago

gmm1990 2y ago

Are there any open source repositories where this is an example? I keep hearing the 10x people ruin everything but I wouldn’t call that person 10x. I don’t understand how it’s objectionable that some people are more productive than others.

alfalfasprout 2y ago
The question is in how they're productive. If they're productive because they're effectively cutting corners and leaving a wake of tech debt others have to clean up then they are productive while slowing down their team (or worse, the company) as a whole.
- whstl 2y ago
  Anyone that has been doing this job knows that the majority of average developers in any workplace will also cut corners every once in a while and leave a lot of tech debt to others, with very few exceptions. This myth that more productive developers are somehow worse and will ruin projects is just rationalization without any ground in reality.
  - alfalfasprout 2y ago
    Except it’s not a myth. Many of us have encountered the perceived more productive developers that ship barely passable garbage.
    - whstl 2y ago
      The myth I’m criticizing is that sloppiness has a stronger correlation with being productive. It doesn’t. Plenty of slow developers who suck. This is just rationalization.
pests 2y ago
I have a buddy that helped me out with some DIY/construction projects. He thinks he is a 10x as well since he gets so much done so quickly. He will finish up and sit down saying its done. I go look and every tool is literally everywhere, garbage and debris thrown about, and half the stuff is incorrectly installed as he didn't think he needed to read the instructions and missed key details.
- from-nibly 2y ago
  That's someone who thinks they are 10x not someone who is.
  - pests 2y ago
    I think that would apply to many of those 10x'ers were talking about here tho.
    - from-nibly 2y ago
      But they aren't 10x'ers. You could say they are wannabe 10x'ers or 10x mess makers, or "10x'ers". But can we stop saying people who are good at there job are actually bad at their job and being mediocre actually means you are great? Like I know I'm being pedantic but this kind of culture is toxic to everyone. Edit: sorry for ranting under your comment. I'm sure you are a normal person just trying to get through your day. I just had to scream somewhere
      - pests 2y ago
        You're fine no worries. I think you are making my point. People who claim they are 10x'ers are often not. They are mess makers or wannabes. They appear 10x to those who do not take messes or tech debt into account. You screaming (to use your lingo) that my buddy above is not a 10x is what the rest of us have been screaming about our co-workers! I'm not claiming people can't be 10x'ers. Nor am I saying being good is actually bad.
Chyzwar 2y ago
Katt from trpc, mantine lead developer, Tanner from tanstack, Anders from typescript, Jose from elixir, antires from redis. There plenty of 10x dev examples. In any creative industry Price's is well known phenomen. 50% of work is done by square root of people. But in reality there large number of problems that cannot be solved by average developer. That why people that build tooling, compilers, important libraries and frameworks make often 100 times more impact. They increase productivity of everyone

YetAnotherNick 2y ago

Hard disagree. If they don't consistently write maintainable and reliable code, they are not 10x engineer no matter how smart they are. e.g. Linus is a classic 10x or 100x engineer and his code(Linux, Git etc) has been maintained by a completely uncoordinated team for decades.

whstl 2y ago

Wait... "Most" 1x engineers? "Most" in any profession will be average. Which is completely normal and fine. This kind of reply is just flipping the stereotype and going in another insane extreme without any evidence at all, just conflating productivity with recklessness...

Izkata 2y ago
Their very next line also used "Most 10x engineers". Neither of those are talking about "most" in the profession, it's "most" in the subgroup. Average in the profession will be somewhere in between.
- whstl 2y ago
  Are you really sure? If 1x is the absolute rock-bottom lowest possible productivity, are them really the precious angels who care deeply about the user while making amazing code? This is even more absurd.
  - Izkata 2y ago
    > If 1x is the absolute rock-bottom lowest possible productivity You understand the original meaning of the term. This is not how most people use it nowadays.
    - whstl 2y ago
      No, I don’t. You’re reading too much into my post. I haven’t made any judgement of whether 1x means average or rock bottom, because it doesn’t matter. The assertion made by GP is absurd regardless of the definition, period.

CrimsonRain 2y ago

Most "1x" engineers are a drag on the business. Complacent. Don't care about business goals. And the 10x you mentioned are not 10x. They are 1x with frenzy. If one is not multiplying the team output, they are simply 1x or lower (maybe a few exceptions)

Nevermark 2y ago

Someone imagining they are brilliant doesn’t make them brilliant. More so if in the light of day their work sucks. Discussions about 10x engineers are not about “wannabe 10x engineers”. — I have yet to come across an intellectual area where there isn’t a long tail of higher talent. As the “x” goes up they just get more rare in reality, and even rarer to see. Because they are not always being optimally challenged. Most problems are mundane. And optimally challenging workers isn’t really a business plan for anything. I think there is such thing as a 10x problem, which you have to find before your 10x engineer really shines. Identifying hard but exceptionally valuable problems to solve takes 10x vision. And time and luck.

steveBK123 2y ago
You really can over-hire and I've seen it happen in many shops If a "10x engineer" is not given 10x problems, they will.. create some.
- rockemsockem 2y ago
  No, they'll leave. You're talking about the wannabes.
  - steveBK123 2y ago
    There’s easily 10x as many 10x wannabes though
- TZubiri 2y ago
  Yes but it will never reach production. A 10x engineer that pushes a problem to prod is not a 10x. You get to 10x by not making mistakes, any issue you create sets you back ten squares.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- lowbloodsugar 2y ago