4 ms·

I mean another reason to do this is because Tesla literally commited fraud with these rebates. They bought thousands of their own cars and then sold them as sli

I mean another reason to do this is because Tesla literally commited fraud with these rebates. They bought thousands of their own cars and then sold them as slightly used to get in on the rebates before other car companies could.

anonfordays 2y ago
That was fake news, didn't happen. Tesla just sold that many cars because people bought them after news that the rebate was ending came out.
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  > That was fake news, didn't happen. Tesla just sold that many cars because people bought them after news that the rebate was ending came out. Can you provide a citation? My understanding is that Transport Canada is currently investigating [1] [2], and your argument five days ago was "this is fake news" without citations [3] ("The "fraud" narrative being pushed about this is because this is fake news."). [1] https://cleantechnica.com/2025/03/10/what-is-going-on-with-the-43-million-in-rebates-tesla-claimed-in-canada-over-3-days/ https://cleantechnica.com/2025/03/10/what-is-going-on-with-t... [2] https://www.thestar.com/business/8-600-teslas-in-one-weekend-how-the-surprise-end-to-a-federal-subsidy-led/article_0e2213d4-f858-11ef-9a6e-6385bfdbc505.html https://www.thestar.com/business/8-600-teslas-in-one-weekend... | https://archive.today/spY0D https://archive.today/spY0D [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43301835 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43301835 (I am aware of how Tesla sales works, having bought several)
  - bdangubic 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - anonfordays 2y ago
      there were a lots of citations ... :)
  - anonfordays 2y ago
    >your argument five days ago was "this is fake news" without citations YOU make the claim, YOU bring sources. The sources did not have any citations that fraud occurred. https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/tesla-model-y-leads-canadas-izev-rebate-claims-in-2024-chevy-equinox-ev-outpaces-model-3/ https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/tesla-model-y-leads-canadas... Tesla clearly outpased the competition, Model Y selling double what the second place competition was. https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-dominates-canada-izev-rebate-program-doubling-nearest-competitor/ https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-dominates-canada-izev-rebate... Tesla was selling double of what the competition was in the same rebate program less than a year ago. >My understanding is that Transport Canada is currently investigating And they will find nothing, because there is no fraud. The only source you provide has no evidence of fraud except that Tesla was just better at selling vehicles, and they are. Your source and the primary source provides no proof of the supposed fraud, it simply lists quotes from pissed off competitors that didn't sell as many vehicles as Tesla, and therefore were not able to collecte the rebate. >A simple search yields https://tc.canada.ca/en/road-transportation/innovative-techn https://tc.canada.ca/en/road-transportation/innovative-techn... for citations of program overview. >- "Individuals are eligible for one incentive" >- "Organizations and businesses are eligible for up to 10 incentives. Organizations and businesses that share common ownership, other than common ownership as a result of being a publicly traded company, are considered as one single organization eligible for a combined total of 10" Yes, individuals and companies qualify and the instant point of sale rebate is applied to the sale price after taxes and fees. The dealerships are not entitled the rebate on a per car sold basis, only the individuals are. >The story is that Tesla sold as many cars, at four dealers in three days, almost as many as they sold in Canada in all of Q1 2024 at a time when their Canadian sales are trending down. Tesla does not sell cars at dealerships. All online orders in huge areas 150 kilometers wide get tagged to these show rooms even though you cannot purchase there. >There are 1440 minutes in a day, they sold 8600 cars. Assuming a 12 hour dealer workday at 4 dealers. Articles say 2 cars a minute, I get one car per minute. It still they correctly process the incentives at point of sale or delivery? The investigating will find out. Four dealers doing online sales for large swaths of provinces. These "dealerships" do not have sales staff nor do they actually deliver vehicles many of the times, even though they're double as the "dealership of delivery." >The fraud also might be if anyone bought their own vehicles to sell later, or are otherwise violate the 10 rebates per organization limit and attempted to hide this. This wouldn't be Tesla committing the fraud then.

anonfordays 2y ago

That was fake news, didn't happen. Tesla just sold that many cars because people bought them after news that the rebate was ending came out.

toomuchtodo 2y ago
> That was fake news, didn't happen. Tesla just sold that many cars because people bought them after news that the rebate was ending came out. Can you provide a citation? My understanding is that Transport Canada is currently investigating [1] [2], and your argument five days ago was "this is fake news" without citations [3] ("The "fraud" narrative being pushed about this is because this is fake news."). [1] https://cleantechnica.com/2025/03/10/what-is-going-on-with-the-43-million-in-rebates-tesla-claimed-in-canada-over-3-days/ https://cleantechnica.com/2025/03/10/what-is-going-on-with-t... [2] https://www.thestar.com/business/8-600-teslas-in-one-weekend-how-the-surprise-end-to-a-federal-subsidy-led/article_0e2213d4-f858-11ef-9a6e-6385bfdbc505.html https://www.thestar.com/business/8-600-teslas-in-one-weekend... | https://archive.today/spY0D https://archive.today/spY0D [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43301835 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43301835 (I am aware of how Tesla sales works, having bought several)
- bdangubic 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - anonfordays 2y ago
    there were a lots of citations ... :)
- anonfordays 2y ago
  >your argument five days ago was "this is fake news" without citations YOU make the claim, YOU bring sources. The sources did not have any citations that fraud occurred. https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/tesla-model-y-leads-canadas-izev-rebate-claims-in-2024-chevy-equinox-ev-outpaces-model-3/ https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/tesla-model-y-leads-canadas... Tesla clearly outpased the competition, Model Y selling double what the second place competition was. https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-dominates-canada-izev-rebate-program-doubling-nearest-competitor/ https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-dominates-canada-izev-rebate... Tesla was selling double of what the competition was in the same rebate program less than a year ago. >My understanding is that Transport Canada is currently investigating And they will find nothing, because there is no fraud. The only source you provide has no evidence of fraud except that Tesla was just better at selling vehicles, and they are. Your source and the primary source provides no proof of the supposed fraud, it simply lists quotes from pissed off competitors that didn't sell as many vehicles as Tesla, and therefore were not able to collecte the rebate. >A simple search yields https://tc.canada.ca/en/road-transportation/innovative-techn https://tc.canada.ca/en/road-transportation/innovative-techn... for citations of program overview. >- "Individuals are eligible for one incentive" >- "Organizations and businesses are eligible for up to 10 incentives. Organizations and businesses that share common ownership, other than common ownership as a result of being a publicly traded company, are considered as one single organization eligible for a combined total of 10" Yes, individuals and companies qualify and the instant point of sale rebate is applied to the sale price after taxes and fees. The dealerships are not entitled the rebate on a per car sold basis, only the individuals are. >The story is that Tesla sold as many cars, at four dealers in three days, almost as many as they sold in Canada in all of Q1 2024 at a time when their Canadian sales are trending down. Tesla does not sell cars at dealerships. All online orders in huge areas 150 kilometers wide get tagged to these show rooms even though you cannot purchase there. >There are 1440 minutes in a day, they sold 8600 cars. Assuming a 12 hour dealer workday at 4 dealers. Articles say 2 cars a minute, I get one car per minute. It still they correctly process the incentives at point of sale or delivery? The investigating will find out. Four dealers doing online sales for large swaths of provinces. These "dealerships" do not have sales staff nor do they actually deliver vehicles many of the times, even though they're double as the "dealership of delivery." >The fraud also might be if anyone bought their own vehicles to sell later, or are otherwise violate the 10 rebates per organization limit and attempted to hide this. This wouldn't be Tesla committing the fraud then.