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We started with libraries and books, now you're moving the goalposts to websites. Sidenote: I wouldn't even be mad if OpenAI built robots to go into all of the

We started with libraries and books, now you're moving the goalposts to websites. Sidenote: I wouldn't even be mad if OpenAI built robots to go into all of the libraries and read all of the books. That would be amazing!

ben_w 2y ago
I started with libraries. OpenAI started with the internet. The argument for both is identical, your objection is specific to libraries. IIRC, Google already did your sidenote. Or started to, may have had legal issues.
- triceratops 2y ago
  > The argument for both is identical How so? I don't have to pay to read most websites. To read most books I have to pay (or a library has to pay and I have to wait to get the book). > IIRC, Google already did your sidenote Not quite. They had to chop the spines off books and have humans feed them into scanners. I'm talking about a robot that can walk (or roll) into a library, use arms to take books off the shelves, turn the pages and read them without putting them into a scanner.
  - philipkglass 2y ago
    They had humans turn the pages of intact books in scanning machines. The books mostly came from the shelves of academic libraries and were returned to the shelves after scanning. You can see some incidental captures of hands/fingers in the scans on Google Books or HathiTrust (the academic home of the Google Books scans). There are some examples collected here: https://theartofgooglebooks.tumblr.com/ https://theartofgooglebooks.tumblr.com/
  - ben_w 2y ago
    > How so? I don't have to pay to read most websites. To read most books I have to pay (or a library has to pay and I have to wait to get the book). "or" does a lot of work, even ignoring that I'd already linked you to a page about deposit libraries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_deposit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_deposit Fact is, you can read books for free, just as you can read (many but not all) websites for free. And in both cases you're allowed to use what you learned without paying ongoing licensing fees for having learned anything from either, and even to make money from what you learn. > Not quite. They had to chop the spines off books and have humans feed them into scanners. Your statement is over 20 years out of date: https://patents.google.com/patent/US7508978B1/en https://patents.google.com/patent/US7508978B1/en

ben_w 2y ago

I started with libraries. OpenAI started with the internet. The argument for both is identical, your objection is specific to libraries. IIRC, Google already did your sidenote. Or started to, may have had legal issues.

triceratops 2y ago
> The argument for both is identical How so? I don't have to pay to read most websites. To read most books I have to pay (or a library has to pay and I have to wait to get the book). > IIRC, Google already did your sidenote Not quite. They had to chop the spines off books and have humans feed them into scanners. I'm talking about a robot that can walk (or roll) into a library, use arms to take books off the shelves, turn the pages and read them without putting them into a scanner.
- philipkglass 2y ago
  They had humans turn the pages of intact books in scanning machines. The books mostly came from the shelves of academic libraries and were returned to the shelves after scanning. You can see some incidental captures of hands/fingers in the scans on Google Books or HathiTrust (the academic home of the Google Books scans). There are some examples collected here: https://theartofgooglebooks.tumblr.com/ https://theartofgooglebooks.tumblr.com/
- ben_w 2y ago
  > How so? I don't have to pay to read most websites. To read most books I have to pay (or a library has to pay and I have to wait to get the book). "or" does a lot of work, even ignoring that I'd already linked you to a page about deposit libraries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_deposit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_deposit Fact is, you can read books for free, just as you can read (many but not all) websites for free. And in both cases you're allowed to use what you learned without paying ongoing licensing fees for having learned anything from either, and even to make money from what you learn. > Not quite. They had to chop the spines off books and have humans feed them into scanners. Your statement is over 20 years out of date: https://patents.google.com/patent/US7508978B1/en https://patents.google.com/patent/US7508978B1/en