5 ms·

I think content creators want to be compensated for their work that's being used for commercial purposes. I think you're framing it in a way that makes it seem

I think content creators want to be compensated for their work that's being used for commercial purposes. I think you're framing it in a way that makes it seem like they don't want to be compensated for working, they just want to stop other people from starting a new industry, which doesn't seem like a good faith understanding of the situation.

ivanmontillam 2y ago
Business and tech idea: make it so that it's like Spotify for AI. Everytime an answer is drawn from "certain learned weights," make it so that the source of that knowledge is paid cents per volume.
- affinepplan 2y ago
  yeah this sounds like it'll be reliably enforced for sure
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- InvidFlower 2y ago
  While that is cool in principal, I'm not sure how well it'd actually work in reality. First, there is the technical challenge. My understanding is the weights can have a lot of fluctuation, especially early on. How do we actually determine how much influence a given piece of content has on the final weights? Then if we get past that, my suspicion is that you could game the training. Like have as much of the process happen via public domain sources or pay-once licenses. That would cover a lot of the fundamental knowledge and processes. Then you could fine-tune on copyrighted data. That might actually make it easier to see how much influence on the final weights that content has, but is also would probably be a lot less influence. There's a big difference between a painting of an apple being the main contribution to the concept of "apple" in an image model, vs mention of that painting corresponding to a few weights that just reference a bunch of other concepts that were learned via open data.
  - ivanmontillam 2y ago
    > First, there is the technical challenge. My understanding is the weights can have a lot of fluctuation, especially early on. How do we actually determine how much influence a given piece of content has on the final weights? Well, Bing AI already knows where it drew the information from and cites sources; so it would be a matter of making the deal. How to enforce it? that's the main question I reckon. > Then if we get past that, my suspicion is that you could game the training. Like have as much of the process happen via public domain sources or pay-once licenses. I agree.
- esafak 2y ago
  Running it is probably costly, but there are papers on "influence analysis": Training data influence analysis and estimation: a survey (https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s10994-023-06495-7.pdf https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s10994-023-064...) It would be easier to negotiate a fixed cost on using a particular datum per training of a model.

ivanmontillam 2y ago

Business and tech idea: make it so that it's like Spotify for AI. Everytime an answer is drawn from "certain learned weights," make it so that the source of that knowledge is paid cents per volume.

affinepplan 2y ago
yeah this sounds like it'll be reliably enforced for sure
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
InvidFlower 2y ago
While that is cool in principal, I'm not sure how well it'd actually work in reality. First, there is the technical challenge. My understanding is the weights can have a lot of fluctuation, especially early on. How do we actually determine how much influence a given piece of content has on the final weights? Then if we get past that, my suspicion is that you could game the training. Like have as much of the process happen via public domain sources or pay-once licenses. That would cover a lot of the fundamental knowledge and processes. Then you could fine-tune on copyrighted data. That might actually make it easier to see how much influence on the final weights that content has, but is also would probably be a lot less influence. There's a big difference between a painting of an apple being the main contribution to the concept of "apple" in an image model, vs mention of that painting corresponding to a few weights that just reference a bunch of other concepts that were learned via open data.
- ivanmontillam 2y ago
  > First, there is the technical challenge. My understanding is the weights can have a lot of fluctuation, especially early on. How do we actually determine how much influence a given piece of content has on the final weights? Well, Bing AI already knows where it drew the information from and cites sources; so it would be a matter of making the deal. How to enforce it? that's the main question I reckon. > Then if we get past that, my suspicion is that you could game the training. Like have as much of the process happen via public domain sources or pay-once licenses. I agree.
esafak 2y ago
Running it is probably costly, but there are papers on "influence analysis": Training data influence analysis and estimation: a survey (https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s10994-023-06495-7.pdf https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s10994-023-064...) It would be easier to negotiate a fixed cost on using a particular datum per training of a model.