5 ms·

So we're gonna side with Zynga on this because it is innovating by bringing The Sims to Facebook and EA is trying to block innovation with IP lawsuits here, rig

So we're gonna side with Zynga on this because it is innovating by bringing The Sims to Facebook and EA is trying to block innovation with IP lawsuits here, right?

anonymoushn 14y ago
The Sims Social was already on Facebook.
- 3am_hackernews 14y ago
  The Ville was launched in June 2012[1]; the Sims Social was launched on August 9, 2011[2]. --------------- [1]http://investor.zynga.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=686775 http://investor.zynga.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=686775 [2]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sims_Social http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sims_Social
dag11 14y ago
What does The Ville do that The Sims doesn't? Where are the aesthetics drastically different? Where do the two games behave differently. The Ville has identical behavior to The Sims Social, and strikingly similar artwork.
- jconley 14y ago
  Yeah, but, "identical behavior" and "strikingly similar" are not Copyright violations.
  - dag11 14y ago
    My comment was mainly in the context of the parent comment's implied contradiction between our apparent siding with EA here, but our siding with Android in Apple v. Android.
  - dangrossman 14y ago
    Change one word ("strikingly similar" to "substantially similar") and you have the very legal definition of a derivative work, an infringement on the original copyright (17 U.S.C. § 101).
  - msbarnett 14y ago
    > Yeah, but, "identical behavior" and "strikingly similar" are not Copyright violations. Good thing you're not a lawyer. Ferguson v National Broadcasting Co: If the two works are so strikingly similar as to preclude the possibility of independent creation, 'copying' may be proved without a showing of access
  - briandear 14y ago
    If Zynga had 'prior access' and their resulting product is similar, then it's easy to prove an infringement.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
jonmb 14y ago
I'll go with EA on this one. Zynga is perhaps the most unethical video game company I've come across in my 20+ years of gaming.
ChrisNorstrom 14y ago
Hell no. This isn't like craigslist vs. padmapper because EA was never founded as a pseudo-charity and Zynga is not the little guy. Zynga with it's 60%-70% Cloned portfolio is the bad guy. EA's flaws are by accident and ignorance, Zynga's flaws are willful and on purpose. I've noticed a lot of comments here state that "you can't copyright a genre". These are people who did NOT read the complaint or see the screenshots comparing The Ville with the Sims. GO and READ the complaint. Jesus, it's one click away. Just skim all the way through it and look at the pictures. It is blatant copying. No mistake. Pure facts. Cloning. Copyright infringement. Zynga might have finally bit off more than it could chew. Lets hope it chokes and dies a miserable and embarrassing death.
- briandear 14y ago
  So little guy vs big guy has relevance? I thought the law was what was relevant. Suggesting that the perpetrator of an act ought to be treated differently based on factors unrelated to the actual action seems wrong. If a poor homeless guy robs my house, I want him just as arrested as the rich guy that does it. But, if we're supposed to be pulling for the little guy, then we should be supporting Apple against Samsung right? Samsung makes over twice Apple's yearly revenue. The blatant copying by Samsung of Apple (even down to icon colors and packaging design) is just as obvious as Zynga's ripoff.
  - Goronmon 14y ago
    The blatant copying by Samsung of Apple (even down to icon colors and packaging design) is just as obvious as Zynga's ripoff. I honestly can't believe you that you think this could possibly be true. Then again, Apple fans can get pretty overzealous.
  - ChrisNorstrom 14y ago
    What are you an emotionless corporate suit? Of course little guy vs. big guy has relevance. Consumers are very emotional creatures. You might be logical but the world around you is not. Why do you think we all flocked to Google and give it a chance back in early days of Lycos, Yahoo, MS, & AltaVista? It wasn't because we were educated about its new "page rank" algorithm. It was the story behind the company. The same thing that led us towards Facebook and Craigslist. It's NOT the only factor in using a service, the service has to be good obviously and provide something the others don't. But there are endless cases where being better doesn't bring home the bacon. It's the human element, the emotional factor that can win people over and get them to give you a try. "Little guy" is simply a way of saying "ability to have empathy for". When a company is vulnerable, non aggressive, new, innocent, we tend to see them as something pure and beautiful that must be protected from a brutal world. like a flower. Cheesy I know, but it works.
raganwald 14y ago
Isn't this exactly the same as the Apple vs. Samsung wars? Although those involve patents and this involves copyright, it comes down to the same moral issue. Company #1 starts selling black glass slabs and company #2 clones themm in almost every respect. At some fundamental level you either think that competition "should" involve innovation and/or original design in order to incentivise peopel to create original products, or you think that cloning look and feel is part of the market operating efficiently without artifical barriers.
- dag11 14y ago
  It's similar, but has one fundamental difference. The Apple vs. Android holy war spans many different devices, user interfaces, brands, packaging methods, and advertisements. Some Android phones copy the iPhone/iOS more than others. For example, I feel that the Galaxy S1 absolutely tries to copy many key aspects of iPhone and iOS, down to the device appearance, UI appearance, packaging, and marketing (in terms of visuals). However, I don't feel that many other phones (such as the Galaxy Nexus) resemble the iPhone to the amount that Apple wishes it did. In contrast to that situation, this EA vs. Zynga battle is over one specific product, with defined features and aesthetics.
  - theevocater 14y ago
    But raganwald wasn't talking about the "Apple vs Android holy war". He posted specifically about Apple vs Samsung which is about specific products.
- KaoruAoiShiho 14y ago
  >Company #1 starts selling black glass slabs and company #2 clones themm in almost every respect. Except this is totally false since Samsung had black slab designs since 2006. http://i.imgur.com/KPGYL.jpg http://i.imgur.com/KPGYL.jpg
- rustynails77 14y ago
  It's about as similar as a fish is to a bicycle. Apple are showing themselves as patent trolls - noone else is allowed to create a smart phone that has black glass and rounded corners, which is about as generic as you get. On the other hand, if you read the link above (the complaint), you will see that detailed feature, after detailed feature is copied (colours, layouts, mannerisms, interaction, selection screens, even the exact RGB colors of skin on characters). This is a complete clone superficially and in detail. I have lost a lost of respect for EA over the years, but they deserve to wipe the floor with Zynga over this case. One caveat - Samsung clearly copied the phone icon (although this was obviously taken from the keypad of existing mobile phones), packaging and connector from Apple. This is more obvious, but -FAR- less significant to the product than what Apple "borrowed" from Sony/Jony.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

So we're gonna side with Zynga on this because it is innovating by bringing The Sims to Facebook and EA is trying to block innovation with IP lawsuits here, right?

anonymoushn 14y ago

The Sims Social was already on Facebook.

3am_hackernews 14y ago
The Ville was launched in June 2012[1]; the Sims Social was launched on August 9, 2011[2]. --------------- [1]http://investor.zynga.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=686775 http://investor.zynga.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=686775 [2]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sims_Social http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sims_Social

dag11 14y ago

What does The Ville do that The Sims doesn't? Where are the aesthetics drastically different? Where do the two games behave differently. The Ville has identical behavior to The Sims Social, and strikingly similar artwork.

jconley 14y ago
Yeah, but, "identical behavior" and "strikingly similar" are not Copyright violations.
- dag11 14y ago
  My comment was mainly in the context of the parent comment's implied contradiction between our apparent siding with EA here, but our siding with Android in Apple v. Android.
- dangrossman 14y ago
  Change one word ("strikingly similar" to "substantially similar") and you have the very legal definition of a derivative work, an infringement on the original copyright (17 U.S.C. § 101).
- msbarnett 14y ago
  > Yeah, but, "identical behavior" and "strikingly similar" are not Copyright violations. Good thing you're not a lawyer. Ferguson v National Broadcasting Co: If the two works are so strikingly similar as to preclude the possibility of independent creation, 'copying' may be proved without a showing of access
- briandear 14y ago
  If Zynga had 'prior access' and their resulting product is similar, then it's easy to prove an infringement.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

jonmb 14y ago

I'll go with EA on this one. Zynga is perhaps the most unethical video game company I've come across in my 20+ years of gaming.

ChrisNorstrom 14y ago

Hell no. This isn't like craigslist vs. padmapper because EA was never founded as a pseudo-charity and Zynga is not the little guy. Zynga with it's 60%-70% Cloned portfolio is the bad guy. EA's flaws are by accident and ignorance, Zynga's flaws are willful and on purpose. I've noticed a lot of comments here state that "you can't copyright a genre". These are people who did NOT read the complaint or see the screenshots comparing The Ville with the Sims. GO and READ the complaint. Jesus, it's one click away. Just skim all the way through it and look at the pictures. It is blatant copying. No mistake. Pure facts. Cloning. Copyright infringement. Zynga might have finally bit off more than it could chew. Lets hope it chokes and dies a miserable and embarrassing death.

briandear 14y ago
So little guy vs big guy has relevance? I thought the law was what was relevant. Suggesting that the perpetrator of an act ought to be treated differently based on factors unrelated to the actual action seems wrong. If a poor homeless guy robs my house, I want him just as arrested as the rich guy that does it. But, if we're supposed to be pulling for the little guy, then we should be supporting Apple against Samsung right? Samsung makes over twice Apple's yearly revenue. The blatant copying by Samsung of Apple (even down to icon colors and packaging design) is just as obvious as Zynga's ripoff.
- Goronmon 14y ago
  The blatant copying by Samsung of Apple (even down to icon colors and packaging design) is just as obvious as Zynga's ripoff. I honestly can't believe you that you think this could possibly be true. Then again, Apple fans can get pretty overzealous.
- ChrisNorstrom 14y ago
  What are you an emotionless corporate suit? Of course little guy vs. big guy has relevance. Consumers are very emotional creatures. You might be logical but the world around you is not. Why do you think we all flocked to Google and give it a chance back in early days of Lycos, Yahoo, MS, & AltaVista? It wasn't because we were educated about its new "page rank" algorithm. It was the story behind the company. The same thing that led us towards Facebook and Craigslist. It's NOT the only factor in using a service, the service has to be good obviously and provide something the others don't. But there are endless cases where being better doesn't bring home the bacon. It's the human element, the emotional factor that can win people over and get them to give you a try. "Little guy" is simply a way of saying "ability to have empathy for". When a company is vulnerable, non aggressive, new, innocent, we tend to see them as something pure and beautiful that must be protected from a brutal world. like a flower. Cheesy I know, but it works.

raganwald 14y ago

Isn't this exactly the same as the Apple vs. Samsung wars? Although those involve patents and this involves copyright, it comes down to the same moral issue. Company #1 starts selling black glass slabs and company #2 clones themm in almost every respect. At some fundamental level you either think that competition "should" involve innovation and/or original design in order to incentivise peopel to create original products, or you think that cloning look and feel is part of the market operating efficiently without artifical barriers.

dag11 14y ago
It's similar, but has one fundamental difference. The Apple vs. Android holy war spans many different devices, user interfaces, brands, packaging methods, and advertisements. Some Android phones copy the iPhone/iOS more than others. For example, I feel that the Galaxy S1 absolutely tries to copy many key aspects of iPhone and iOS, down to the device appearance, UI appearance, packaging, and marketing (in terms of visuals). However, I don't feel that many other phones (such as the Galaxy Nexus) resemble the iPhone to the amount that Apple wishes it did. In contrast to that situation, this EA vs. Zynga battle is over one specific product, with defined features and aesthetics.
- theevocater 14y ago
  But raganwald wasn't talking about the "Apple vs Android holy war". He posted specifically about Apple vs Samsung which is about specific products.
KaoruAoiShiho 14y ago
>Company #1 starts selling black glass slabs and company #2 clones themm in almost every respect. Except this is totally false since Samsung had black slab designs since 2006. http://i.imgur.com/KPGYL.jpg http://i.imgur.com/KPGYL.jpg
rustynails77 14y ago
It's about as similar as a fish is to a bicycle. Apple are showing themselves as patent trolls - noone else is allowed to create a smart phone that has black glass and rounded corners, which is about as generic as you get. On the other hand, if you read the link above (the complaint), you will see that detailed feature, after detailed feature is copied (colours, layouts, mannerisms, interaction, selection screens, even the exact RGB colors of skin on characters). This is a complete clone superficially and in detail. I have lost a lost of respect for EA over the years, but they deserve to wipe the floor with Zynga over this case. One caveat - Samsung clearly copied the phone icon (although this was obviously taken from the keypad of existing mobile phones), packaging and connector from Apple. This is more obvious, but -FAR- less significant to the product than what Apple "borrowed" from Sony/Jony.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]