3 ms·

Federal student loan site down, a day after layoffs gutted Education Department

23 points by petethomas 2y ago

rayiner 2y ago
The department of education budget was $65 billion in 1990 (in 2024 dollars), and over $260 billion in 2024. The under-18 population has grown only from 70 million to 75 million. So we are spending 300% more for less than 10% more kids. In that time, what has happened to test scores? Since 1998, NAEP scores are down: https://kansaspolicy.org/naep-scores-still-stink-now-what https://kansaspolicy.org/naep-scores-still-stink-now-what. Before COVID they were more or less flat for 20 years. Ezra Klein made an excellent point on his podcast recently. If you want people to support government programs—to be outraged when programs and departments are cut—you have to deliver good governance. Parents correctly apprehend that schools today aren’t delivering a better education today than when they were kids despite spending vastly more money.
- bloomingkales 2y ago
  This is college loans. The budget went up because the colleges charge more. One thing at a time please. Gutting schools is probably a forgone conclusion since AI teaches better than your average k-12 teacher. Charter schools will run a grift with this by understaffing, shoving a laptop with AI in front of the kids, and then overcharge for it. This is going to be great AI Startup Charter schools, the ultimate OpenAI wrapper app. Check this out: https://www.gao.gov/blog/many-charter-school-students-are-eligible-free-lunches-schools-may-not-participate-program https://www.gao.gov/blog/many-charter-school-students-are-el... The charter schools don’t participate in the program most likely because they would have to pay for cafeteria staff. That’s the future we’re talking about here, friendo.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- watwut 2y ago
  Department of education cuts are the most disliked by Americans. And that is despite years of right wing attacks on public education. Most people are actually happy with own public school and unhappy about generic unspecified other bad schools they read about on media.
  - rayiner 2y ago
    You think the people are happy with spending more and getting declining test scores in return? Is that because people like you hand-wave away spending more for declining test scores as a “right-wing attack?”
    - watwut 2y ago
      That is what was came out of opinion searches. Most people were actually happy with public schools their kids went to. They had general opinion that some schools somewhere else are bad. And that is also actual reality - areas that collect a little on taxes have worst schools (and healthcare) then areas willing or having funds to pay them. Also, when it come to DOGE, education department cuts are the ones American seem to mark as least popular. Yet also, lets not pretend that cutting money that goes toward healthy lunch have anything to do with trying to raise test scores. Cutting support for special needs students wont raise those test scores either.
      - rayiner 2y ago
        Differences between districts wouldn't explain why overall scores are static to declining while Dept. of Ed. funding has increased by a factor of four. Also, is your theory that people are satisfied with paying much more for education without scores going up? I don't understand the point you're trying to make.
        pcwalton 2y ago
        Abolishing the DoE is wildly unpopular, even among Republicans: https://all4ed.org/publication/voters-views-on-education-in-2024/ https://all4ed.org/publication/voters-views-on-education-in-... You're in a significant minority even within your own party.

23 points by petethomas 2y ago

The department of education budget was $65 billion in 1990 (in 2024 dollars), and over $260 billion in 2024. The under-18 population has grown only from 70 million to 75 million. So we are spending 300% more for less than 10% more kids. In that time, what has happened to test scores? Since 1998, NAEP scores are down: https://kansaspolicy.org/naep-scores-still-stink-now-what https://kansaspolicy.org/naep-scores-still-stink-now-what. Before COVID they were more or less flat for 20 years. Ezra Klein made an excellent point on his podcast recently. If you want people to support government programs—to be outraged when programs and departments are cut—you have to deliver good governance. Parents correctly apprehend that schools today aren’t delivering a better education today than when they were kids despite spending vastly more money.

bloomingkales 2y ago
This is college loans. The budget went up because the colleges charge more. One thing at a time please. Gutting schools is probably a forgone conclusion since AI teaches better than your average k-12 teacher. Charter schools will run a grift with this by understaffing, shoving a laptop with AI in front of the kids, and then overcharge for it. This is going to be great AI Startup Charter schools, the ultimate OpenAI wrapper app. Check this out: https://www.gao.gov/blog/many-charter-school-students-are-eligible-free-lunches-schools-may-not-participate-program https://www.gao.gov/blog/many-charter-school-students-are-el... The charter schools don’t participate in the program most likely because they would have to pay for cafeteria staff. That’s the future we’re talking about here, friendo.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
watwut 2y ago
Department of education cuts are the most disliked by Americans. And that is despite years of right wing attacks on public education. Most people are actually happy with own public school and unhappy about generic unspecified other bad schools they read about on media.
- rayiner 2y ago
  You think the people are happy with spending more and getting declining test scores in return? Is that because people like you hand-wave away spending more for declining test scores as a “right-wing attack?”
  - watwut 2y ago
    That is what was came out of opinion searches. Most people were actually happy with public schools their kids went to. They had general opinion that some schools somewhere else are bad. And that is also actual reality - areas that collect a little on taxes have worst schools (and healthcare) then areas willing or having funds to pay them. Also, when it come to DOGE, education department cuts are the ones American seem to mark as least popular. Yet also, lets not pretend that cutting money that goes toward healthy lunch have anything to do with trying to raise test scores. Cutting support for special needs students wont raise those test scores either.
    - rayiner 2y ago
      Differences between districts wouldn't explain why overall scores are static to declining while Dept. of Ed. funding has increased by a factor of four. Also, is your theory that people are satisfied with paying much more for education without scores going up? I don't understand the point you're trying to make.
      - pcwalton 2y ago
        Abolishing the DoE is wildly unpopular, even among Republicans: https://all4ed.org/publication/voters-views-on-education-in-2024/ https://all4ed.org/publication/voters-views-on-education-in-... You're in a significant minority even within your own party.