4 ms·

> But there wasn't really a clever master plan to it. He had hateful ramblings in his head and acted rashly on them. Hitler had a fairly consistent worldview a

> But there wasn't really a clever master plan to it. He had hateful ramblings in his head and acted rashly on them. Hitler had a fairly consistent worldview and sets of goals going all the way back to Mein Kampf, even though he didn't know how to get there from the start. I don't think this can be said about Trump.

rich_sasha 2y ago
Yeah, I'm not claiming it's an all-encompassing analogy. Though you could argue Trump was always going on about tariffs, even as a supposed Democrat. Also Hitler's views radicalized dramatically over time. Or maybe more accurately, the ideas were constant, but their scope and ruthlessness expanded.
- seec 2y ago
  Hitler ideas were radical from the start. We just like to pretend otherwise in history manuals, because it started as a socialist thing, and since left HAS to be the camp of the good, it has to become far-right radicalism. But if you look at history in various countries it is extremely consistent with socialist/left ideology that necessarily need to have an authoritarian state to put the world in the "right" state.
  - Tainnor 2y ago
    Although a member of the German Worker's Party, Hitler was never an ardent socialist (you may confuse him with Mussolini), and both of them had completely broken with any "socialist" roots long before they came to power. Communists and social democrats were among the first targets of the Nazis.
    - seec 2y ago
      His program was litteraly national socialism. He wanted to get rid of the communists but not because their ideas didn't suit him (in many ways it's extremely similar, central state deciding everything) but because they were sympathisan of the soviets; another big power that he just wanted to take over. I'm not confusing with Mussolini but yes it is more of the same. What I'm pointing out is that all those authoritarian centralised government are almost always some sort of far-left by definition. In my opinion the way we classify the political ideas and government is very flawed and illogical. It is that way to respect the sensibilities of the people theorising such things and they always want to have the left side look better (even though it is by far the most murderous ideology there has ever been).
      - Tainnor 2y ago
        There are a few more ideas behind socialism except just authoritarianism, ideas that run counter to the Nazi program. Thinking that Nazism is socialism just because it calls itself "national socialism" is like thinking that Javascript is a version of Java.
consteval 2y ago
Au contraire, project 2025 is very detailed and has clear paths to reach their (the heritage foundation, conservatives at large) goals. It’s just that the goal sucks for everyday people. Why would these powerful people want goals that suck? Because the converse of it sucking for you is it getting better for them - meaning, money is being siphoned. I think Trump is following a plan as best as he can given the state of our economy and government. I think the fact the plan is so bad that it doesn’t even feel intentional IS intentional. The plan sucks because it’s meant to.
- Tainnor 2y ago
  > Au contraire, project 2025 is very detailed and has clear paths to reach their (the heritage foundation, conservatives at large) goals. I agree, but these weren't Trump's goals that he's had for 10 years or something like in Hitler's case. It's a plan by the Heritage Foundation that somehow got Trump to sign off on it.

rich_sasha 2y ago

Yeah, I'm not claiming it's an all-encompassing analogy. Though you could argue Trump was always going on about tariffs, even as a supposed Democrat. Also Hitler's views radicalized dramatically over time. Or maybe more accurately, the ideas were constant, but their scope and ruthlessness expanded.

seec 2y ago
Hitler ideas were radical from the start. We just like to pretend otherwise in history manuals, because it started as a socialist thing, and since left HAS to be the camp of the good, it has to become far-right radicalism. But if you look at history in various countries it is extremely consistent with socialist/left ideology that necessarily need to have an authoritarian state to put the world in the "right" state.
- Tainnor 2y ago
  Although a member of the German Worker's Party, Hitler was never an ardent socialist (you may confuse him with Mussolini), and both of them had completely broken with any "socialist" roots long before they came to power. Communists and social democrats were among the first targets of the Nazis.
  - seec 2y ago
    His program was litteraly national socialism. He wanted to get rid of the communists but not because their ideas didn't suit him (in many ways it's extremely similar, central state deciding everything) but because they were sympathisan of the soviets; another big power that he just wanted to take over. I'm not confusing with Mussolini but yes it is more of the same. What I'm pointing out is that all those authoritarian centralised government are almost always some sort of far-left by definition. In my opinion the way we classify the political ideas and government is very flawed and illogical. It is that way to respect the sensibilities of the people theorising such things and they always want to have the left side look better (even though it is by far the most murderous ideology there has ever been).
    - Tainnor 2y ago
      There are a few more ideas behind socialism except just authoritarianism, ideas that run counter to the Nazi program. Thinking that Nazism is socialism just because it calls itself "national socialism" is like thinking that Javascript is a version of Java.

consteval 2y ago

Au contraire, project 2025 is very detailed and has clear paths to reach their (the heritage foundation, conservatives at large) goals. It’s just that the goal sucks for everyday people. Why would these powerful people want goals that suck? Because the converse of it sucking for you is it getting better for them - meaning, money is being siphoned. I think Trump is following a plan as best as he can given the state of our economy and government. I think the fact the plan is so bad that it doesn’t even feel intentional IS intentional. The plan sucks because it’s meant to.

Tainnor 2y ago
> Au contraire, project 2025 is very detailed and has clear paths to reach their (the heritage foundation, conservatives at large) goals. I agree, but these weren't Trump's goals that he's had for 10 years or something like in Hitler's case. It's a plan by the Heritage Foundation that somehow got Trump to sign off on it.