6 ms·

> The bad news is that donations are unlikely to happen with the current massive misspending on overpaid people with no technical background that don't code tha

> The bad news is that donations are unlikely to happen with the current massive misspending on overpaid people with no technical background that don't code that spend 95% of their budget on themselves, support staff that also doesn't code, offices they don't need, commercial products that flop, monetization schemes that fail, etc. Mozilla already solicits donations, but I wonder if people who donate to them know that Mozilla funds things that are wildly not Firefox-related, like feminist AI conferences in Africa. Meanwhile Firefox looks more and more like an also-ran compared to its competition. All I ever wanted from Mozilla was a browser, not this. https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/donate/ https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/donate/ https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/blog/mozfest-house-zambia-2024-recap-a-celebration-of-solidarity/ https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/blog/mozfest-house-zambia-...

Raed667 2y ago
I'm not sure how common this sentiment is, but I had a discussions with colleges who will NOT donate unless they can guarantee that their money is going to the development of a chosen product or even more granularity to a chosen feature.
- fabrice_d 2y ago
  Then they should pool funds to pay consulting companies like Igalia to implement these features.
  - Raed667 2y ago
    I think it is more up to Mozilla to put its act together and implement more transparency. So that people start trusting the organization not to waste their donations on executive salaries.
- poulpy123 2y ago
  There is very little probability that your friend would donate any money even if they could have a say at the feature. But even if it was the case it would not be enough to fund the development. And finally you don't manage a company like that.
nativeit 2y ago
[flagged]
- FireBeyond 2y ago
  Not the OP... To me I think the issue is "how can Mozilla be self-sufficient without Google?", and that means tightening their focus. Those things should all get effort, energy and investment - but maybe Mozilla doesn't need to be the one driving it (to that point, maybe Mozilla can advocate for Google funding those things directly?).
- theandrewbailey 2y ago
  Let me repeat myself: > All I ever wanted from Mozilla was a browser Firefox is the best alternative to a Chromium/Google dominated web. As long as Firefox isn't kicking ass and being used by, say, 20% of web users, I argue that Mozilla shouldn't be doing anything else. This is especially prudent when a large part of Mozilla's (and therefore, Firefox's) funding is in jeopardy. So, yes, I have a problem with Mozilla doing events right now, no matter what event it might be, short of a major product launch.
  - ToucanLoucan 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - rurp 2y ago
      Nobody is confused about how it's currently working. The whole complaint is that there isn't a way to donate towards Firefox and have any confidence that's where the money will go. There are a million social justice charities out there and zero dedicated to non-chromium browsers. A lot of people are disappointed by that. Anyone who wants to fund Afrofeminist conferences can do so directly. Sure Mozilla can spend donations how it wants, but donors are free to not donate as well. For years many people have been saying that they want to support Firefox without all of unrelated social projects, but Mozilla has refused to offer that. I expect that a lot of potential donations have therefore not happened.
    - 2y ago
delusional 2y ago
> like feminist AI conferences in Africa. According to their 2023 form 990 (the 2024 one isn't published yet) those sort of donations are usually on the order of 15k. You don't get much browser for that money.
- rurp 2y ago
  That's hardly an isolated example though, plus who knows how many staff hours went into evaluating various proposals and facilitating the conference. The big question is why. It's not like there are a dearth of social justices non-profits out there. It couldn't be easier to donate directly to such projects. Why can't we have a single non-profit focused entirely on preventing a total browser monopoly?
  - logifail 2y ago
    > The big question is why. It's not like there are a dearth of social justices non-profits out there. It couldn't be easier to donate directly to such projects. Managers like to build empires?
- account42 2y ago
  15k is a sofware developer salary for over a quarter of a year in many parts of the world. That's actually quite a bit of browser.
  - myvoiceismypass 2y ago
    And Mozilla HQ is in SF
  - delusional 2y ago
    That line of argument require there to be a line of competent and productive 3rd world developers ready outside the doors of Mozilla HQ. Not just productive developers either, they'd have to be entirely intrinsically motivated and self driven, preferably with projects lined up. They would of course also have to be completely at-will, at risk of being terminated after their quarter year contract. Anything less than that will cost more then the developer salary. My argument, more directly, is that a developer is not just a salary. You need support staff, office space, capital, and actual work for them to do. You need to hire, manage, and tutor them. Comparing developer salaries to money spent on one-time goodwill activities is ridiculous. Internal billing at enterprise corps usually estimate two times salary for "real cost", but that still assumes you're actually holding that cost against a tangible planned project.
metabagel 2y ago
How much did Mozilla spend on this conference? They sell badges to attendees, who must also pay for their own accommodations and airfare. Were there other sponsors? I'm not sure this is the smoking gun you think it is.
- matsemann 2y ago
  It's unfortunately vogue to mention DEI-efforts to cast bad light on something.
  - fenomas 2y ago
    And to do so in bad faith, no less - the event seems to have had 2-3 sessions related to feminism (out of a couple dozen), but no connection beyond that. https://schedule.mozillafestival.org/plaza https://schedule.mozillafestival.org/plaza
    - Hyperboreanal 2y ago
      "Bad faith" just means "I disagree" huh? That "2-3" should be zero. Activist woke BS needs to be excised from Mozilla. It all brings nothing but conflict, waste, and censorship. Tech companies need to focus on tech. Go peddle your cancer somewhere else.
      - jamespo 2y ago
        [flagged]
      - netsharc 2y ago
        [flagged]
      - zippity-zappity 2y ago
        [flagged]
  - account42 2y ago
    Thankfully it is becoming more popular to call out racism and sexism like "DEI".
darkwater 2y ago
> Mozilla funds things that are wildly not Firefox-related, like feminist AI conferences in Africa. Good. I'm going to donate some money then (to both parties).
lolinder 2y ago
> Mozilla already solicits donations, but I wonder if people who donate to them know that Mozilla funds things that are wildly not Firefox-related It's not just that: Mozilla can't use any of your donation on Firefox. Firefox belongs to the for-profit, and money cannot flow from the non-profit to the for-profit. So in a way all of the random stuff that they do do as the non-profit is the inevitable outcome of their structure: They have a product that people who care know is struggling to survive and so those people want to donate. Mozilla now has money that they can't spend on the product, so they have to find somewhere else to put it. One might reasonably ask why the org whose primary purpose is maintaining the one independent browser engine is structured in a way that makes it impossible for donations to flow to the browser engine. I don't have a good answer that doesn't sound like a conspiracy theory.

Raed667 2y ago

I'm not sure how common this sentiment is, but I had a discussions with colleges who will NOT donate unless they can guarantee that their money is going to the development of a chosen product or even more granularity to a chosen feature.

fabrice_d 2y ago
Then they should pool funds to pay consulting companies like Igalia to implement these features.
- Raed667 2y ago
  I think it is more up to Mozilla to put its act together and implement more transparency. So that people start trusting the organization not to waste their donations on executive salaries.
poulpy123 2y ago
There is very little probability that your friend would donate any money even if they could have a say at the feature. But even if it was the case it would not be enough to fund the development. And finally you don't manage a company like that.

nativeit 2y ago

[flagged]

FireBeyond 2y ago
Not the OP... To me I think the issue is "how can Mozilla be self-sufficient without Google?", and that means tightening their focus. Those things should all get effort, energy and investment - but maybe Mozilla doesn't need to be the one driving it (to that point, maybe Mozilla can advocate for Google funding those things directly?).
theandrewbailey 2y ago
Let me repeat myself: > All I ever wanted from Mozilla was a browser Firefox is the best alternative to a Chromium/Google dominated web. As long as Firefox isn't kicking ass and being used by, say, 20% of web users, I argue that Mozilla shouldn't be doing anything else. This is especially prudent when a large part of Mozilla's (and therefore, Firefox's) funding is in jeopardy. So, yes, I have a problem with Mozilla doing events right now, no matter what event it might be, short of a major product launch.
- ToucanLoucan 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - rurp 2y ago
    Nobody is confused about how it's currently working. The whole complaint is that there isn't a way to donate towards Firefox and have any confidence that's where the money will go. There are a million social justice charities out there and zero dedicated to non-chromium browsers. A lot of people are disappointed by that. Anyone who wants to fund Afrofeminist conferences can do so directly. Sure Mozilla can spend donations how it wants, but donors are free to not donate as well. For years many people have been saying that they want to support Firefox without all of unrelated social projects, but Mozilla has refused to offer that. I expect that a lot of potential donations have therefore not happened.
  - 2y ago

delusional 2y ago

> like feminist AI conferences in Africa. According to their 2023 form 990 (the 2024 one isn't published yet) those sort of donations are usually on the order of 15k. You don't get much browser for that money.

rurp 2y ago
That's hardly an isolated example though, plus who knows how many staff hours went into evaluating various proposals and facilitating the conference. The big question is why. It's not like there are a dearth of social justices non-profits out there. It couldn't be easier to donate directly to such projects. Why can't we have a single non-profit focused entirely on preventing a total browser monopoly?
- logifail 2y ago
  > The big question is why. It's not like there are a dearth of social justices non-profits out there. It couldn't be easier to donate directly to such projects. Managers like to build empires?
account42 2y ago
15k is a sofware developer salary for over a quarter of a year in many parts of the world. That's actually quite a bit of browser.
- myvoiceismypass 2y ago
  And Mozilla HQ is in SF
- delusional 2y ago
  That line of argument require there to be a line of competent and productive 3rd world developers ready outside the doors of Mozilla HQ. Not just productive developers either, they'd have to be entirely intrinsically motivated and self driven, preferably with projects lined up. They would of course also have to be completely at-will, at risk of being terminated after their quarter year contract. Anything less than that will cost more then the developer salary. My argument, more directly, is that a developer is not just a salary. You need support staff, office space, capital, and actual work for them to do. You need to hire, manage, and tutor them. Comparing developer salaries to money spent on one-time goodwill activities is ridiculous. Internal billing at enterprise corps usually estimate two times salary for "real cost", but that still assumes you're actually holding that cost against a tangible planned project.

metabagel 2y ago

How much did Mozilla spend on this conference? They sell badges to attendees, who must also pay for their own accommodations and airfare. Were there other sponsors? I'm not sure this is the smoking gun you think it is.

matsemann 2y ago
It's unfortunately vogue to mention DEI-efforts to cast bad light on something.
- fenomas 2y ago
  And to do so in bad faith, no less - the event seems to have had 2-3 sessions related to feminism (out of a couple dozen), but no connection beyond that. https://schedule.mozillafestival.org/plaza https://schedule.mozillafestival.org/plaza
  - Hyperboreanal 2y ago
    "Bad faith" just means "I disagree" huh? That "2-3" should be zero. Activist woke BS needs to be excised from Mozilla. It all brings nothing but conflict, waste, and censorship. Tech companies need to focus on tech. Go peddle your cancer somewhere else.
    - jamespo 2y ago
      [flagged]
    - netsharc 2y ago
      [flagged]
    - zippity-zappity 2y ago
      [flagged]
- account42 2y ago
  Thankfully it is becoming more popular to call out racism and sexism like "DEI".

darkwater 2y ago

> Mozilla funds things that are wildly not Firefox-related, like feminist AI conferences in Africa. Good. I'm going to donate some money then (to both parties).

lolinder 2y ago

> Mozilla already solicits donations, but I wonder if people who donate to them know that Mozilla funds things that are wildly not Firefox-related It's not just that: Mozilla can't use any of your donation on Firefox. Firefox belongs to the for-profit, and money cannot flow from the non-profit to the for-profit. So in a way all of the random stuff that they do do as the non-profit is the inevitable outcome of their structure: They have a product that people who care know is struggling to survive and so those people want to donate. Mozilla now has money that they can't spend on the product, so they have to find somewhere else to put it. One might reasonably ask why the org whose primary purpose is maintaining the one independent browser engine is structured in a way that makes it impossible for donations to flow to the browser engine. I don't have a good answer that doesn't sound like a conspiracy theory.